GrayAnderson

So, thanks to the latest rumours from the Department of Hopeless Stupidity banning laptops on flights from all European countries as well as the present set of them (rumours which I don't give 100% credence to but which, at this point, I kind of have to consider as plausible) I'm seriously looking into routing my return from Europe into either YUL or YYZ instead of JFK, IAD, or another East Coast airport (I'm pretty destination-agnostic once I get back to North America). I'd add YVR and some others onto the list, but unless I'm using that to connect to somewhere back east I tend to find that said fares are about 2x as expensive. That being said, I'm also finding that "proper" J/F tickets into Canada are generally running several hundred dollars less than tickets into the relevant US airports on the same airlines (which means that I can probably stuff a ticket out of the relevant Canadian airport together on either AA or DL for somewhere equal to or less than the difference in fares. If I can't do so, then Amtrak /is/ a viable (if slightly clumsy) option.

Presuming that all major airports in Europe are an option (my initial departure is from HEL but I'm open to doing just about anything from there...my intention is not to do this as a "throwaway ticket", though if I essentially end up with a stray weekend in Europe sometime later this year or early next year for my troubles alongside a pile of stray miles you're not going to hear me complain too loudly) what are likely to be my most comfortable J/F options? Overall I'm finding that my options with F are (in order of ascending cost) BA, AA, 9W, and LX. For J, there's sort-of a smorgasboard...but in a few cases (Air Transat leaps to mind) as far as I can tell the EU would be well-served declaring that their "idea" of TATL J amounts to improper marketing while in other cases (BA leaps to mind), there are complaints aplenty. I don't mind so much if I'm looking at "this is really J but we're calling it F"; I /do/ mind if it's "this is really Y+ but we're calling it J".

A secondary consideration is an airline being partnered with either AS, VS, or SQ (whether in-alliance or out-of-alliance), followed by DL (ditto).

(For the record, I've also examined trying to get somewhere likely to not be smacked with the electronics nonsense...but the practicalities of sticking something together going the "wrong way around" aren't there at the moment.)

LondonElite

I personally wouldn't add an unnecessary connection in Canada, but that's up to you.

I think the practicalities of banning laptops from the cabin for all European flights are complicated. Airlines will not want 300 lithium batteries in the hold, for one thing. Also, it's one thing to ban it from a few ME3 carriers, but quite another to put this in place across the thousands of flights that cross the Atlantic every day to the US. I suspect it will be much easier to put in place proper screening.

ft101

It's 7.5 to 8 hours from LHR to JFK. Sleep for 6 hours, eat for the rest, and you won't even miss your laptop.

emma69

Air Canada is decent in 'Executive First' (a hybrid between business and first - it has the lie flat beds on most aircraft, decent IFE, but food/drink is not really F standard).

LondonElite

It's not even J standard!

WorldLux

• How do you think is a laptop/tablet going to look like after being in a checked-bag?
• What about company policies about never being seperated from your computer while traveling?

This isn't a "I can't work on the flight issue" but a "I don't want my valuables/lots of private/business information to get into the wrong hands". Not to mention that it is silly security-wise as Lithium batteries shouldn't be stored in the hold.

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@GrayAnderson: For now I would just wait and see. I honestly doubt that the US are going to take such measures. The next step in the electronics ban is probably other nations expanding the UK ban. If there really is a very serious threat, the ban will be global and apply to each and every flight and there won't be any escaping by flying via Canada.

GrayAnderson

The main jam with waiting (well, waiting more than two weeks) is that I can get decent F/J fares >90 days out, but there's a bit of a "hammer drop" at 90 days for the "outbound" (that is, initial trip return) leg. The "return" (that is, the "first leg of a future trip") leg can be a lot later without any tangible impact as far as I can tell.

I'll eyeball what AC has to offer; thanks for the heads' up there. If nothing else, I'll look at their earning on SQ.

And while I recognize what you're saying about the US taking these measures, my confidence in the TSA is sufficienlty low that I'm not putting it past them.

ft101

If a ban is in fact implemented, then similar precautions to those in the Middle East will likely be put in place which seem to be doing OK. Company policies will be updated as they have been for ME flights.

I can't tell from the OP if it's a work or safety or security issue.

GrayAnderson

While it's a bit of Column A and a bit of Column B, in its most basic form this is much more security-related than it is anything else (and I'd include "baggage mishandling" as a subset of "security" as well...even if I'm clearly not flying United). I'll chuck most of my clothing in a checked bag (usually one full change stays with me out of superstition) but I'm trying to think if I have ever checked my laptop. I'm fairly sure the answer is "no" (even if one former laptop did end up comically jammed in a briefcase once to meet a certain short-lived airline's "personal item" rule).

I'll admit it, I'm also a result of the 21st century...if my laptop goes somewhere that I don't the result is likely to be a messy round of anxiety...and that's even if everything is backed up properly in advance. Incident to the above is that if my flight into London is a Schengen flight, IIRC I'd have to get the computer packed away when I leave Helsinki...and with apologies all around, but at that point productivity is an issue as is just going nuts in the airport. In this context I don't want to think how stir-crazy I would have gone sans my computer at SIN or LHR back in January (SIN particularly, since that was close to a 24-hour stop).

Anyhow, I did my searching and basically I see my primary options as follows (in no particular order but listed by cost since that's how ITA tends to kick them out):

(1A) AC LHR-YOW/YYZ/YUL. This is the cheapest TATL option with something approaching a proper Business hard product (Norwegian and Transat don't count, thank you very much...). The pro is the price (GBP 1890/USD 2430 on a "short return", USD 2630 on an (American) Thanksgiving or Christmas return, and USD 2950 on a "spray and pray" return after January 2, 2018). YYZ and YUL are similarly-priced (and yes, I did have to make sure I was getting returns on YYZ and not YHZ). YOW is on a 767 but some other flights show up as 777s or 787s.
(1B) AC LHR-YOW with return on an open jaw from elsewhere. The prices kick out the same from YYZ and YUL (checking it on a lark, YVR is not surprisingly, somewhat more expensive...though less horridly than I might expect). Curiously, the "excessively extended return" ticket is less heavily penalized through YVR.

(2) BA shows up next, with some competitvely-priced fares (albeit in 2-3-2 J) on the same pairings (and with my choice of YYZ, YUL, or YOW). So weighing BA's 2-3-2 offering vs. AC's 1-1-1 is worth a consideration. All else being equal, BA would probably win out due to the state of their FF partnership with AS at the moment, but as we all know all else is not always equal. The "return games" on BA seem to match or be better than those on AC (e.g. I'm still getting £1889 or so on a December return).

(3) Swinging back to the US, there are some returns on American into CLT/JFK in the just-over-£2000 range. There are a few AA £1889s that show up, but those are BA flights into Canada. However if I'm going to fly into the US I'm going to either stick with BA or fly VS (which I know I like the product on). £2104-2141 seems to be the going rate on these flights.

(4A) There's "full F", which in this context basically means BA LHR-YYZ. £2287 kicks out for both a short return and a scoped-out November/December return (£2587 post-Christmas return). Inanely, ITA kicks out the same flight on a late return at about 4x the price if booked through AA. And the airlines wonder why I won't book through their engines?
(4B) Open-jawing the "back half" of the trip into PHL or IAD gives an F return of £90 more.

(5) Finally, I'm willing to entertain a "slingshot" trip via YVR in J on AC or BA. The pricing is £2450 on a longer return, but that's not the end of the world. The main negative here is that F isn't even closely priced. The back end of this would likely be YVR-JFK on CX (probably followed by a connection home out of JFK) but that looks like a safely-timed connection.

My thinking, in context, is that my best two options are either BA's First or AC's Business product if I'm going into Canada, or VS's UC if I'm going into the US. BA's 2-3-2 BC (not the 2-4-2 product) would be next.

Note that I'm defaulting to LHR as my European transfer airport; I'm willing to switch that up if there's a sold reason to do so...but, for example, I have no idea how OpenSkies will credit anywhere.

Edit: On thinking this over in the morning, I figured that I should probably add that I did weigh the costs of that domestic connection in here. LHR-X-RIC/PHF/ORF (my home airports) on BA/AA in F kicks out a fare of £2800-3000 r/t. Comparing that to the F fare on BA into YYZ? I'm pretty sure I can book something cheaper out of YYZ/YUL/YOW on DL (at this point, my preferred domestic carrier for various reasons) and get it into ORF/PHF. Part of the reason is simply that my domestic airports suck, but I think part of it is that BA and DL don't play well with one another, and whereas BA has Int'l F, my experience is generally that DL's Domestic F is cheaper.

jrl767

no recent experience, hence the q: will OP be subject to the extreme (for premium cabins) UK departure taxes as a connecting passenger, given this trip will originate at HEL?

eigenvector

Air Canada hasn't had first class for years. They have Business Class, which is lie-flat all-aisle access on all intercontinental routes (the only exception I think is YYT-LHR which is the shortest scheduled TATL flight) which compares favourably to most US carrier long-haul J products.

GrayAnderson

Those are already rolled into the above fares; a cursory check suggests that extending the r/t to HEL adds about $1000 in J while adding a separate r/t HEL-LHR runs about $500 (a separate one-way is going to land somewhere in the middle). Edit: I think this is the part of the show where I note how utterly inane it is for the airline to charge more for a return that hits them with a resulting tax bill.