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Old Nov 21, 2016 | 6:43 pm
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Aircraft operating limit - pressure

So I'm sitting here in lovely GUW (current temperature -18c/0f) with a growing amount of colleagues piling up as KC is refusing to fly into an airport (URA got hit as well) when the pressure is above 1050 millibar/hectopascal. Currently the pressure is sitting at 1051 millibar, so I guess they aren't getting out today either.

SU is still flying and both fly A320 series aircraft into the airport.

Explanations that I have heard include that it's an issue with the altimeter configuration due to being below sea level, or that it's to do with the altimeter calibration not being certified above 150 millibar. Has anyone heard of if this is a standard limit on aircraft because I don't think I've ever heard of a shutdown for this before.

Link to story on this if anyone is interested.
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Old Nov 21, 2016 | 7:35 pm
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Originally Posted by Productivity
So I'm sitting here in lovely GUW (current temperature -18c/0f) with a growing amount of colleagues piling up as KC is refusing to fly into an airport (URA got hit as well) when the pressure is above 1050 millibar/hectopascal. Currently the pressure is sitting at 1051 millibar, so I guess they aren't getting out today either.

SU is still flying and both fly A320 series aircraft into the airport.

Explanations that I have heard include that it's an issue with the altimeter configuration due to being below sea level, or that it's to do with the altimeter calibration not being certified above 150 millibar. Has anyone heard of if this is a standard limit on aircraft because I don't think I've ever heard of a shutdown for this before.

Link to story on this if anyone is interested.
The settings on some altimeters only go up to 1050 millibars. Therefore the crew are not able to set a reading higher than that on aircraft fitted with such equipment and so cannot operate.
I guess A320 aircraft are fitted with altimeters which allow a greater range of setting.
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Old Nov 21, 2016 | 7:45 pm
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Originally Posted by Notsofreq
The settings on some altimeters only go up to 1050 millibars. Therefore the crew are not able to set a reading higher than that on aircraft fitted with such equipment and so cannot operate.
I guess A320 aircraft are fitted with altimeters which allow a greater range of setting.
Both airlines fly A320/1 on this route . Maybe purchaser to purchaser variation.

Further to that, why would a manufacturer spec an altimeter to such a limited range. It's not like this is a 1 in a thousand year event!
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Old Nov 21, 2016 | 7:48 pm
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Originally Posted by Productivity
Both airlines fly A320/1 on this route . Maybe purchaser to purchaser variation.
Yes. Likely an optional fit at an extra charge to the airline purchaser. Statistically not a frequent occurrence so a bean counter decision.
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Old Nov 21, 2016 | 9:06 pm
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Most altimeters have that range historically, I don't know the exact histrory. Also some airport weather equipment can't measure above it either.

There is a potential safety issue. The actual altitude won't be correct with pressure above the altimeter's barometric pressure range. Moreover, though, with not every aircraft using the correct or the same barometer setting, aircraft can't rely on reported altitudes for safe separation. So even if a given aircraft's altimeter can be set above that range, the same can't be assumed of everyone else flying in that area.

In the US, the FAA implemented procedures for such situations some years ago. I'd have to go back and look up the particulars but IIRC VFR flights can occur with specific procedures, but IFR operations are either not approved or severely limited.
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Old Nov 21, 2016 | 9:25 pm
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Originally Posted by Notsofreq
Yes. Likely an optional fit at an extra charge to the airline purchaser. Statistically not a frequent occurrence so a bean counter decision.
This is the story of my life (in the power generation industry):

"Why don't we have extremely useful option xxx that would be saving us hundreds of thousands of dollars right now?"

"Not sure, it wasn't specified at the time of purchase."

"Who ordered this equipment?"

"Business development department"

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Old Nov 21, 2016 | 9:51 pm
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I've been a pilot since 1981--a commercial pilot since 1986. I've never seen an altimeter setting anywhere near 1050mb (31.01in). It is quite rare.
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Old Nov 22, 2016 | 2:16 am
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Originally Posted by Notsofreq
I guess A320 aircraft are fitted with altimeters which allow a greater range of setting.
More likely the other operators (regulators) are satisfied to ignore (manage) the relevant safety risks and proceed anyway.

1050 is a virtually unheard of measurement. I've never seen anything close to that.
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Old Nov 22, 2016 | 2:47 am
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Originally Posted by B747-437B
More likely the other operators (regulators) are satisfied to ignore (manage) the relevant safety risks and proceed anyway.

1050 is a virtually unheard of measurement. I've never seen anything close to that.
Current METAR.

METAR UATG 220930Z 08004MPS CAVOK M12/M18 Q1051 R32/82//50 NOSIG RMK QFE791/1054
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Old Nov 22, 2016 | 2:57 am
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Originally Posted by Productivity
Current METAR.
I recall in the 80s / 90s one occasion where the USA had plus 1050 millibars across most of the country. Everything was grounded. As another poster has mentioned it is not just about the individual aircraft but also about the interaction with other aircraft in the airspace.

Thankfully a rare event.
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Old Nov 22, 2016 | 12:50 pm
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1050 is exceedingly rare in the US and Europe, where a large portion of FTers typically fly, I suspect. It's not that unheard of when a Siberian High camps over (surprise) Siberia and the surrounding area, with temps well, well below 0C. From the METAR it's -12C there right now, so very cold air, being very dense, within a high pressure system, pushes it over 1050mb. So rare, but not completely unexpected.

Not much you can do. If all the aircraft in the area don't know their altitude, you're going to have issues.
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Old Nov 25, 2016 | 7:39 am
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Originally Posted by Productivity
Currently the pressure is sitting at 1051 millibar, so I guess they aren't getting out today either.
Just out of interest, how long did you have to wait before you flew?
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Old Nov 26, 2016 | 7:03 am
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I wasn't held up but that started flying again on the 24th as the pressure came back down under 1050.
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