Do we really need timezones ?
Oct 28, 2016 | 11:05 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 616
Do we really need timezones ?
Timezones are originally designed for adjusting the clock to 12:00 noon when the Sun it at its highest point. In the 19th century many towns had their own timezone. Later it became standardized to divide the world in 24 timezones so that it is noon at 'around' 12:00 o'clock. It is designed in a world without internet, instant communications and intercontinental travel in less than a day.
And then daylight 'saving' time (I rather call this 'daylight shift time') got invented to get longer daylight (at the expense of shorter daylight / longer darkness in the morning).
The 24 timezones still exist, but very messy. some countries tend to shift the timezone to get noon ar 13:00-14:00 hours, sometimes year round. And countries (e.g. India) with half hour offsets. And the DST start and end dates are getting more and more randomized, the EU and US have the best standization.
The excellent site www.timeanddate.com tells in a very nice way how it works.
In aviation this is very confusing. On Flightradar24.com one can select UTC times which is a relief.
I know it will never happen as mankind prefers to stick to the figures the clock points to and thus does not like a date switch in the middle of a business day (although night shift workers do change date on their 'business' / work day).
But I'd think, the best thing is switching to a worldwide single timezone (can be UTC or any other timezone), just like the whole world (except a few countries which comprise < 5% of the world population) uses the SI/metric, use 220-230V AC mains voltage, use feet (the only non-SI use) for flight levels.
Then the so-called 'international date line' becomes obsolete, all times in aviation are unambiguous. In this era with an internet connected world, handheld devices which will tell you, even offline, what the solar time is anywhere in the world, different time zones are something of the past.
And then daylight 'saving' time (I rather call this 'daylight shift time') got invented to get longer daylight (at the expense of shorter daylight / longer darkness in the morning).
The 24 timezones still exist, but very messy. some countries tend to shift the timezone to get noon ar 13:00-14:00 hours, sometimes year round. And countries (e.g. India) with half hour offsets. And the DST start and end dates are getting more and more randomized, the EU and US have the best standization.
The excellent site www.timeanddate.com tells in a very nice way how it works.
In aviation this is very confusing. On Flightradar24.com one can select UTC times which is a relief.
I know it will never happen as mankind prefers to stick to the figures the clock points to and thus does not like a date switch in the middle of a business day (although night shift workers do change date on their 'business' / work day).
But I'd think, the best thing is switching to a worldwide single timezone (can be UTC or any other timezone), just like the whole world (except a few countries which comprise < 5% of the world population) uses the SI/metric, use 220-230V AC mains voltage, use feet (the only non-SI use) for flight levels.
Then the so-called 'international date line' becomes obsolete, all times in aviation are unambiguous. In this era with an internet connected world, handheld devices which will tell you, even offline, what the solar time is anywhere in the world, different time zones are something of the past.
Oct 28, 2016 | 11:54 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 12,778
Timezones are originally designed for adjusting the clock to 12:00 noon when the Sun it at its highest point. In the 19th century many towns had their own timezone. Later it became standardized to divide the world in 24 timezones so that it is noon at 'around' 12:00 o'clock. It is designed in a world without internet, instant communications and intercontinental travel in less than a day.
And then daylight 'saving' time (I rather call this 'daylight shift time') got invented to get longer daylight (at the expense of shorter daylight / longer darkness in the morning).
The 24 timezones still exist, but very messy. some countries tend to shift the timezone to get noon ar 13:00-14:00 hours, sometimes year round. And countries (e.g. India) with half hour offsets. And the DST start and end dates are getting more and more randomized, the EU and US have the best standization.
The excellent site www.timeanddate.com tells in a very nice way how it works.
In aviation this is very confusing. On Flightradar24.com one can select UTC times which is a relief.
I know it will never happen as mankind prefers to stick to the figures the clock points to and thus does not like a date switch in the middle of a business day (although night shift workers do change date on their 'business' / work day).
But I'd think, the best thing is switching to a worldwide single timezone (can be UTC or any other timezone), just like the whole world (except a few countries which comprise < 5% of the world population) uses the SI/metric, use 220-230V AC mains voltage, use feet (the only non-SI use) for flight levels.
Then the so-called 'international date line' becomes obsolete, all times in aviation are unambiguous. In this era with an internet connected world, handheld devices which will tell you, even offline, what the solar time is anywhere in the world, different time zones are something of the past.
And then daylight 'saving' time (I rather call this 'daylight shift time') got invented to get longer daylight (at the expense of shorter daylight / longer darkness in the morning).
The 24 timezones still exist, but very messy. some countries tend to shift the timezone to get noon ar 13:00-14:00 hours, sometimes year round. And countries (e.g. India) with half hour offsets. And the DST start and end dates are getting more and more randomized, the EU and US have the best standization.
The excellent site www.timeanddate.com tells in a very nice way how it works.
In aviation this is very confusing. On Flightradar24.com one can select UTC times which is a relief.
I know it will never happen as mankind prefers to stick to the figures the clock points to and thus does not like a date switch in the middle of a business day (although night shift workers do change date on their 'business' / work day).
But I'd think, the best thing is switching to a worldwide single timezone (can be UTC or any other timezone), just like the whole world (except a few countries which comprise < 5% of the world population) uses the SI/metric, use 220-230V AC mains voltage, use feet (the only non-SI use) for flight levels.
Then the so-called 'international date line' becomes obsolete, all times in aviation are unambiguous. In this era with an internet connected world, handheld devices which will tell you, even offline, what the solar time is anywhere in the world, different time zones are something of the past.
But I think it would be exceptionally confusing to have to remember that 'breakfast' is at 0000h in New York, 1200h in Taipei, etc. I.e. with no time zones, you have to memorise all of the earth-rotation time differentials.
Oct 28, 2016 | 12:21 pm
#3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,677
Other than occasional minimal efforts like having to be aware of the time difference when calling someone in, or traveling to, another time zone, how do the time zones cause a problem for most people?
Timezones weren't created to make the time in each locale match solar noon precisely. They were created to solve the problem of myriad local times which became problematic with the spread of the railroads. In fact zones meant that 12:00 noon wouldn't exactly match solar noon in every town within the zone, but was close enough while still addressing the difficulties of each town setting its own time.
Pilots all use UTC for flight planning, navigation, etc. to reduce the chance of accidents.
While communications are faster and more connected, the vast majority of what most people do in our daily lives is still local.
I'd say that the prevalence of technology makes it easier to deal with multiple time zones. My wristwatch lets me instantly scroll to check the local time all around the world. An app on my phone let's me do that plus even helps me plan a meeting with people in different zones. Easy as pie.
In fact even if there were a single time, traveling longhaul you'd still have to adjust your thinking "hmmm, let's see if I want to be up around dawn, here in Tokyo that's at XX:XX on the clock, as opposed to YY:YY on the clock like it is back home.", etc. Even under a single timezone there would still have to be an agreed-upon international date line in order to know when the date changes.
There are even more variations out there than the global time zones. People seem to be able to cope. For example Ethiopia still maintains a different calendar and clock system alongside the Gregorian calendar and clock scheme used elsewhere. Many religious dates are calculated using lunar or Julian calendars even when their followers might live most of their lives using the Gregorian calendar.
Timezones weren't created to make the time in each locale match solar noon precisely. They were created to solve the problem of myriad local times which became problematic with the spread of the railroads. In fact zones meant that 12:00 noon wouldn't exactly match solar noon in every town within the zone, but was close enough while still addressing the difficulties of each town setting its own time.
Pilots all use UTC for flight planning, navigation, etc. to reduce the chance of accidents.
While communications are faster and more connected, the vast majority of what most people do in our daily lives is still local.
I'd say that the prevalence of technology makes it easier to deal with multiple time zones. My wristwatch lets me instantly scroll to check the local time all around the world. An app on my phone let's me do that plus even helps me plan a meeting with people in different zones. Easy as pie.
In fact even if there were a single time, traveling longhaul you'd still have to adjust your thinking "hmmm, let's see if I want to be up around dawn, here in Tokyo that's at XX:XX on the clock, as opposed to YY:YY on the clock like it is back home.", etc. Even under a single timezone there would still have to be an agreed-upon international date line in order to know when the date changes.
There are even more variations out there than the global time zones. People seem to be able to cope. For example Ethiopia still maintains a different calendar and clock system alongside the Gregorian calendar and clock scheme used elsewhere. Many religious dates are calculated using lunar or Julian calendars even when their followers might live most of their lives using the Gregorian calendar.
Oct 28, 2016 | 12:30 pm
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,595
I think I prefer time zones, because that was I know that 10:00 local time, people will be in the office, but at 23:00 they will be at home heading to bed. If it was 05:00 everywhere, I would have to have very good geographic knowledge to know if my colleague in Germany was asleep or if my friend in Hong Kong was at work.
Oct 28, 2016 | 1:29 pm
#5
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: DAY/CMH
Programs: UA MileagePlus
Posts: 2,474
Time zones mean that huge numbers of people have reasonably synchronized schedules. Here in western Ohio, we start work about the same time as they do in New York. If we all used UTC, we'd never know whether there was a decent chance someone we were dealing with a few hundred miles east would still be at the office at 21:00 UTC.
Time zones are great. (By the way, my region was in the Central time zone until sometime in the forties or fifties. It moved east because people wanted to be more connected with the action in New York.)
Time zones are great. (By the way, my region was in the Central time zone until sometime in the forties or fifties. It moved east because people wanted to be more connected with the action in New York.)
Oct 28, 2016 | 3:19 pm
#7
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Last month, after reading a WorldViews story about Pyongyang time, Hanke reached out to us to detail another idea that he and Henry had devised to fix the chaos caused by time zones.
The plan was strikingly simple. Rather than try to regulate a variety of time zones all around the world, we should instead opt for something far easier: Let's destroy all these time zones and instead stick with one big "Universal Time."
Does that sound extreme? Perhaps, but perhaps not. This map at the top of this post gives you an idea of what the world looks like now, and what it would like if we instead stuck to single system of Universal Time. The logic of Universal Time is strikingly simple: If it's 7 in the morning in Washington D.C., it's 7 everywhere else in the world too. There are no time zones. Wherever you are, the time is the same.
While it may ultimately simplify our lives, the concept would require some big changes to the way we think about time. As the clocks would still be based around the Coordinated Universal Time (the successor to Greenwich Mean Time that runs through Southeast London) most people in the world would have to change the way they consider their schedules. In Washington, for example, that means we'd have to get used to rising around noon and eating dinner at 1 in the morning. (Okay, perhaps that's not that big a change for some people.)
But in many other ways, Hanke and Henry argue, the new system would make communication, travel and trade across international borders far, far easier.
The plan was strikingly simple. Rather than try to regulate a variety of time zones all around the world, we should instead opt for something far easier: Let's destroy all these time zones and instead stick with one big "Universal Time."
Does that sound extreme? Perhaps, but perhaps not. This map at the top of this post gives you an idea of what the world looks like now, and what it would like if we instead stuck to single system of Universal Time. The logic of Universal Time is strikingly simple: If it's 7 in the morning in Washington D.C., it's 7 everywhere else in the world too. There are no time zones. Wherever you are, the time is the same.
While it may ultimately simplify our lives, the concept would require some big changes to the way we think about time. As the clocks would still be based around the Coordinated Universal Time (the successor to Greenwich Mean Time that runs through Southeast London) most people in the world would have to change the way they consider their schedules. In Washington, for example, that means we'd have to get used to rising around noon and eating dinner at 1 in the morning. (Okay, perhaps that's not that big a change for some people.)
But in many other ways, Hanke and Henry argue, the new system would make communication, travel and trade across international borders far, far easier.
Oct 28, 2016 | 11:54 pm
#9
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Zealand/ UK
Programs: NZ, EK, QF, SQ.
Posts: 776
Considering that where I live is 12 hours ahead of UTC, I would hate to have time zones gone.
The idea of reversing day times and night times doesn't appeal at all.
My days would become nights, and vice versa. No thanks!
The idea of reversing day times and night times doesn't appeal at all.
My days would become nights, and vice versa. No thanks!
Oct 29, 2016 | 12:21 am
#10
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Programs: NZ Elite
Posts: 6,518
The CHAOS caused by time zones? really? CHAOS????
Examples please!
What would help a lot more would be universal adoption of 24 hour time rather than getting rid of time zones... more people have trouble with am/pm than with time zones IME.....
Examples please!
What would help a lot more would be universal adoption of 24 hour time rather than getting rid of time zones... more people have trouble with am/pm than with time zones IME.....
Oct 29, 2016 | 12:33 am
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 616
Even with 24 time zones is OK but, stick to 24 full hour only timezones and no DST. The randomly changing DST dates,half hour zones, that make a CHAOS of it, not the timezones themselves.
Oct 29, 2016 | 12:58 am
#12
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The Castro, San Francisco, California
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Posts: 594
Does that mean "regular" jobs would all be worked at the same time even though it would be solar noon in Delhi but dead of night in California, but 2pm everywhere?
Oct 29, 2016 | 1:06 am
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 616
That also eliminates the stupid AM and PM suffixes. A day has 24 hours, not 12.
And as people are stuck to the figures the clock show, a timezoneless world is not feasible.
But a DST less world is feasible. No confusing randomly chosen clock change dates per country.