Flying behind the iron curtain
Sep 21, 2016, 1:04 pm
#1
Original Poster
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Flying behind the iron curtain
Has anyone experienced flying back in the old Soviet Bloc countries? What was it like, especially compared to the flying experience in the west?
Sep 21, 2016, 1:28 pm
#2
Join Date: Apr 2003
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I have a single data point for pre-1991, and many post-1993. My first trip to Russia was in 1988 and involved an Aeroflot flight from Brussels to Moscow. I was 20 at the time and as such was delighted and shocked to be bumped up to F (I presume due to overbooking in Y). So while the rest of the students in my summer program were eating cold chicken in the back of the plane, I was served crabmeat in a half-avocado up front, along with Soviet champagne (which even at 20 I would never have mistaken for actual Champagne!). The FAs were pleasant in F. One interesting thing was that as we approached the stairs up to the plane in BRU, there was a guy there photographing every passenger that was going onto the aircraft, right at the bottom of the stairs. I don't know if those photos ever went anywhere, or if it was a bit of stagecraft to put a scare into everyone!
In the 1993-1996 period when I lived in Russia and Kazakhstan, I took loads of domestic and intra-CIS flights. As a foreigner I got to wait in the special "foreigner" lounge before getting on most flights, but I was always flying coach in those days, so once you got on the plane you were back there with the rabble. Any flight, and indeed any journey of any kind in those days in the FSU, was an excuse for truly impressive feats of alcohol consumption by the locals. On the first domestic flight I took, to Chelyabinsk, my two Russian traveling companions were so plastered by the end of the 2-hour flight that they were literally stumbling down the tarmac after we got off the plane. On that flight and most others, there was food served, consisting of a cold chicken wing, half a slice of dry brown bread, and a wobbly hemispherical cup of "sok" (which translates as juice, but which was really sugar water with an orange crayon dipped into it).
The seats were thinly upholstered and the back of each one folded down onto the seat's cushion, so when you got to your row, you'd have to flip the seat back up in order to sit down. There were seat belts. There was no smoking allowed, which was interesting given the very high proportion of smokers in the population, and the deadly volumes of cigarette smoke found in nearly every other environment in the FSU. (There was a rule against smoking inside trains, too, even back then.)
The most entertaining airline meal I ever had was on my first flight from Moscow to Almaty, Kazakhstan, I think on Transaero. I got a tray with a cold hot dog, a handful of cold peas, a small package of Turkish cookies, and a foil packet of pomegranate juice imported from Iran. After the meal, the FA went around offering tea, poured out of a standard kitchen orange-enameled teakettle.
In the 1993-1996 period when I lived in Russia and Kazakhstan, I took loads of domestic and intra-CIS flights. As a foreigner I got to wait in the special "foreigner" lounge before getting on most flights, but I was always flying coach in those days, so once you got on the plane you were back there with the rabble. Any flight, and indeed any journey of any kind in those days in the FSU, was an excuse for truly impressive feats of alcohol consumption by the locals. On the first domestic flight I took, to Chelyabinsk, my two Russian traveling companions were so plastered by the end of the 2-hour flight that they were literally stumbling down the tarmac after we got off the plane. On that flight and most others, there was food served, consisting of a cold chicken wing, half a slice of dry brown bread, and a wobbly hemispherical cup of "sok" (which translates as juice, but which was really sugar water with an orange crayon dipped into it).
The seats were thinly upholstered and the back of each one folded down onto the seat's cushion, so when you got to your row, you'd have to flip the seat back up in order to sit down. There were seat belts. There was no smoking allowed, which was interesting given the very high proportion of smokers in the population, and the deadly volumes of cigarette smoke found in nearly every other environment in the FSU. (There was a rule against smoking inside trains, too, even back then.)
The most entertaining airline meal I ever had was on my first flight from Moscow to Almaty, Kazakhstan, I think on Transaero. I got a tray with a cold hot dog, a handful of cold peas, a small package of Turkish cookies, and a foil packet of pomegranate juice imported from Iran. After the meal, the FA went around offering tea, poured out of a standard kitchen orange-enameled teakettle.
Sep 21, 2016, 2:24 pm
#3
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P.S. I just noticed that you and I have been on FT since the exact same month and have almost exactly the same number of posts. Cheers!
Sep 21, 2016, 3:33 pm
#4
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I assume he just means orange food coloring (like the orange "bug juice" we used to get a day camp).
Sep 21, 2016, 10:17 pm
#7
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Flying on communist era planes - your adventure starts before you get there. That is what our friend said about our flying into Cuba. It was certainly true. No smoking signs throughout he plane but when we looked in to cockpit everyone was smoking. The navigator gave us a thumbs up when we got over land. That made me feel good. Want a window seat? Pay extra for that. There were six of them out perhaps 60 seats total of which two looked directly out to the engine where one could watch the sparks come off. Checked baggage - no problem you carried it on and checked it into the bin in the middle of the plane.
Sep 22, 2016, 1:54 am
#8
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Malaga, Spain
Posts: 1,077
In the late-1970s my inbound TATL flight to LHR arrived late for my BRU connection. I was offered a Tarom flight to mitigate the delay on the final leg. When I boarded the Ilyushin jet engineers were scurrying back and forth with handfuls of tools through the firmly closed first-class curtain to the cockpit. Eventually they exited the plane close to my seat with a muttered remark 'Well that cracked windscreen will probably be all right'!!
I was too tired to panic and looked forward to in-flight refreshment. Tea was delivered by two unsmiling Soviet-era flight attendants. The first offered a large circular wooden tray with unwrapped teabags in a concentric display with a stack of plastic cups in the middle. She was followed by her colleague with a huge cartoon-style metal kettle of hot water.
Happy days
I was too tired to panic and looked forward to in-flight refreshment. Tea was delivered by two unsmiling Soviet-era flight attendants. The first offered a large circular wooden tray with unwrapped teabags in a concentric display with a stack of plastic cups in the middle. She was followed by her colleague with a huge cartoon-style metal kettle of hot water.
Happy days
Sep 22, 2016, 2:40 am
#9
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Posted in other thread, here it is:
OK. Please take into consideration following:
- There was only one, state airline - Aeroflot. Their slogan was 'Fly on Aeroflot planes', like most things back in Soviet Union it ended up having double meanings - you obviously did not have another alternative.
- Flying was one a lifetime experience, pretty much for 99% of people. Even with 'official' prices - like the one TBS-SVO 1045 miles flight - costed 37 rubles that time. Average monthly salary was 120 rubles, but unless you've been high ranking Party member, you could not buy tickets on these prices - you had to pay bribes to everyone and real price of ticket was like 150 rubles at the end. And you'd be lucky if you could buy ticket on that price.
- You could not buy anything over the phone - you had to go to Aeroflot's office, and get your number in line. And wait, most times for hours, but spending out a night was quite common as well. At the end you would end up in front cashier who would tell you that there are no tickets. So, get a hint - pay a bribe.
- There was no centralized reservation system covering whole SU until beginning of 80s. Every local office was selling tickets for flights originated from that location.
- You had to show up at the airport 3-4 hours before the departure and get into another line for registration. And if you wanted to get 'normal' seat on that flight you had to pay another bribe at registration - so it was in your interest to get there as early as possible.
- There were plane crashes. A LOT of plane crashes which were never told on TV/newspapers, but rumors and word of mouth spread them across the country. My family did not attend church, but before we had flights (three times - in 1984, 85, 88) my mother and all women in extended family went to church to pray for safe flight. No, it is not a joke - look at number of crashes in 70s/80s and you will get an idea.
- There were Tu-134/154 and Yak-40/42 planes as a backbone of fleet. Tu-154 was considered luxury, comparing to Yak. What I remember (it was >30 years ago) they've been extremely loud. Overhead bins were really small - you could put a briefcase there and nothing more. And they have been open.
- Tu-134 IIRC had quite unusual seats at bulkhead: there two rear-faced seats and there was a table in between, so like the compartment at trains.
- Here is a blog post (in Russian) with pictures of Soviet planes in 60s/70s/80s, starting from photo #34.
- Luggage was whole another matter - it was torture. Average wait time until you get your stuff from the moment of landing was 2-3 hours. At least it was in Tbilisi, Vilnius, Leningrad. When we flew to Moscow, we received our luggage 20 min after we got into arrival hall. My father was so impressed with it that he was telling this like a fairy tale to everybody upon return. In TBS, where there was a belt for luggage, it never worked and luggage was just dumped in the middle of hall on floor - you had to go and find your own.
That's pretty much all I can remember... We did not eat at planes because my mother never trusted (for a reason) state provided food and always packed our own to eat on plane.
OK. Please take into consideration following:
- There was only one, state airline - Aeroflot. Their slogan was 'Fly on Aeroflot planes', like most things back in Soviet Union it ended up having double meanings - you obviously did not have another alternative.
- Flying was one a lifetime experience, pretty much for 99% of people. Even with 'official' prices - like the one TBS-SVO 1045 miles flight - costed 37 rubles that time. Average monthly salary was 120 rubles, but unless you've been high ranking Party member, you could not buy tickets on these prices - you had to pay bribes to everyone and real price of ticket was like 150 rubles at the end. And you'd be lucky if you could buy ticket on that price.
- You could not buy anything over the phone - you had to go to Aeroflot's office, and get your number in line. And wait, most times for hours, but spending out a night was quite common as well. At the end you would end up in front cashier who would tell you that there are no tickets. So, get a hint - pay a bribe.
- There was no centralized reservation system covering whole SU until beginning of 80s. Every local office was selling tickets for flights originated from that location.
- You had to show up at the airport 3-4 hours before the departure and get into another line for registration. And if you wanted to get 'normal' seat on that flight you had to pay another bribe at registration - so it was in your interest to get there as early as possible.
- There were plane crashes. A LOT of plane crashes which were never told on TV/newspapers, but rumors and word of mouth spread them across the country. My family did not attend church, but before we had flights (three times - in 1984, 85, 88) my mother and all women in extended family went to church to pray for safe flight. No, it is not a joke - look at number of crashes in 70s/80s and you will get an idea.
- There were Tu-134/154 and Yak-40/42 planes as a backbone of fleet. Tu-154 was considered luxury, comparing to Yak. What I remember (it was >30 years ago) they've been extremely loud. Overhead bins were really small - you could put a briefcase there and nothing more. And they have been open.
- Tu-134 IIRC had quite unusual seats at bulkhead: there two rear-faced seats and there was a table in between, so like the compartment at trains.
- Here is a blog post (in Russian) with pictures of Soviet planes in 60s/70s/80s, starting from photo #34.
- Luggage was whole another matter - it was torture. Average wait time until you get your stuff from the moment of landing was 2-3 hours. At least it was in Tbilisi, Vilnius, Leningrad. When we flew to Moscow, we received our luggage 20 min after we got into arrival hall. My father was so impressed with it that he was telling this like a fairy tale to everybody upon return. In TBS, where there was a belt for luggage, it never worked and luggage was just dumped in the middle of hall on floor - you had to go and find your own.
That's pretty much all I can remember... We did not eat at planes because my mother never trusted (for a reason) state provided food and always packed our own to eat on plane.
Sep 22, 2016, 10:30 am
#10
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Bringing back memories.
Even into the 1990s there were challenges. To get a ticket required a trip to the Aeroflot central ticket office in Moscow -- a multi-queue ordeal. The entire office had to shut down (formally enough that the opening hours reflected this on signs in the windows) because the computer systems required a "technical pause" every two hours. I always timed my arrival just after the 10:30am reboot.
Didn't know it then, but the cause may have been memory leakage or bad garbage collection. Not sure what OS Aeroflot used for its client/ server systems, but Windows 3.x was also super buggy in those days.
I've recounted some of my adventures at Domodedovo and on Aeroflot internal flights many years ago here on flytertalk, so in this thread I'll just stick to international flights (Sheremetevo).
The non-reporting of accidents was notorious. I was at a fancy Sunday brunch in a private home by Patriarchs Pond (near Mayakovsky Square) where I learned the actual cause of the Aeroflot crash SVO-HKG on a new Airbus -- it had happened _that week_. Someone from the Canadian embassy gossiped that it had been the child of the pilot at the controls when things went haywire. It took over a year for this to be reported in the mainstream press.
All of the real news was gossip.
Delta flight 30 was the primary method from the US (JFK) to SVO, but there was also a Delta flight from Frankfurt -- I assume inherited from the mini-hub that Pan Am used to have there. DL30 always got a thorough immigrations examination at the dusty-but-glamorous, disco-ball-and-mirrors arrival hall at SVO, so I preferred the Frankfurt connection. DL30 had three classes, and it was hard to tell the difference between First and Business. IIRC, F was 2-1-2 and C was 2-2-2. No lie-flat seats in those days.
The Business Class departures lounge at SVO was a hoot, frequently closed (for weeks at a time) without explanation. When it was open the only beverage available was an obscure European draft beer. I believe it was operated by the same Swiss concessionaire that ran a strange Swiss-themed restaurant near the International Trade complex by Krasnopresnenskaya embankment. This area was always a construction zone in those days.
My apartment was on Protochny Pereulok with a balcony overlooking the river and the White House. The morning the tanks were firing at the White House was terrifying. I managed to keep up with the crowds in the streets -- eventually making it all the way to a friend's place at Komsomolsky Prospekt. Once I got out of my immediate area the crowds disappeared and people were out in the park enjoying the sunny Autumn day.
Even into the 1990s there were challenges. To get a ticket required a trip to the Aeroflot central ticket office in Moscow -- a multi-queue ordeal. The entire office had to shut down (formally enough that the opening hours reflected this on signs in the windows) because the computer systems required a "technical pause" every two hours. I always timed my arrival just after the 10:30am reboot.
Didn't know it then, but the cause may have been memory leakage or bad garbage collection. Not sure what OS Aeroflot used for its client/ server systems, but Windows 3.x was also super buggy in those days.
I've recounted some of my adventures at Domodedovo and on Aeroflot internal flights many years ago here on flytertalk, so in this thread I'll just stick to international flights (Sheremetevo).
The non-reporting of accidents was notorious. I was at a fancy Sunday brunch in a private home by Patriarchs Pond (near Mayakovsky Square) where I learned the actual cause of the Aeroflot crash SVO-HKG on a new Airbus -- it had happened _that week_. Someone from the Canadian embassy gossiped that it had been the child of the pilot at the controls when things went haywire. It took over a year for this to be reported in the mainstream press.
All of the real news was gossip.
Delta flight 30 was the primary method from the US (JFK) to SVO, but there was also a Delta flight from Frankfurt -- I assume inherited from the mini-hub that Pan Am used to have there. DL30 always got a thorough immigrations examination at the dusty-but-glamorous, disco-ball-and-mirrors arrival hall at SVO, so I preferred the Frankfurt connection. DL30 had three classes, and it was hard to tell the difference between First and Business. IIRC, F was 2-1-2 and C was 2-2-2. No lie-flat seats in those days.
The Business Class departures lounge at SVO was a hoot, frequently closed (for weeks at a time) without explanation. When it was open the only beverage available was an obscure European draft beer. I believe it was operated by the same Swiss concessionaire that ran a strange Swiss-themed restaurant near the International Trade complex by Krasnopresnenskaya embankment. This area was always a construction zone in those days.
My apartment was on Protochny Pereulok with a balcony overlooking the river and the White House. The morning the tanks were firing at the White House was terrifying. I managed to keep up with the crowds in the streets -- eventually making it all the way to a friend's place at Komsomolsky Prospekt. Once I got out of my immediate area the crowds disappeared and people were out in the park enjoying the sunny Autumn day.
Last edited by fastflyer; Sep 22, 2016 at 10:52 am
Sep 22, 2016, 11:44 am
#11
Join Date: Jul 2013
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My apartment was on Protochny Pereulok with a balcony overlooking the river and the White House. The morning the tanks were firing at the White House was terrifying. I managed to keep up with the crowds in the streets -- eventually making it all the way to a friend's place at Komsomolsky Prospekt. Once I got out of my immediate area the crowds disappeared and people were out in the park enjoying the sunny Autumn day.
Sep 22, 2016, 2:59 pm
#12
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Delta flight 30 was the primary method from the US (JFK) to SVO, but there was also a Delta flight from Frankfurt -- I assume inherited from the mini-hub that Pan Am used to have there. DL30 always got a thorough immigrations examination at the dusty-but-glamorous, disco-ball-and-mirrors arrival hall at SVO, so I preferred the Frankfurt connection. DL30 had three classes, and it was hard to tell the difference between First and Business. IIRC, F was 2-1-2 and C was 2-2-2. No lie-flat seats in those days.
Sep 23, 2016, 12:59 pm
#13
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SNA
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Posts: 343
CAAC flight
I don't think China was a member of the Soviet bloc, but I somewhat fondly remember a tour my parents and I took back in 1984 from Hong Kong to Guangzhou to Beijing and back.
We took the hydrofoil from HKG into Guangzhou and went through immigration/customs. We seemed to take a long time in a special room with the inspectors. It wasn't until we had left that we noticed the entire tour group was waiting on us. My parents and I were the only US citizens in this tour group, while the rest of the tour group were HKG citizens, and presumably they were given a quick pass while we got the "full service" immigration check.
We later flew to Beijing. I distinctly remember everybody smoking at the airport, as well as on our plane, a beat up, scary (to me) looking CAAC Ilyushin Il-62. The takeoff was delayed as the captain had to come out to the cabin to persuade a pax that had boarded with caged chickens as a carry-on, that he needed to put them below in the cargo hold. I don't remember much of the meal other than it was tasteless, but I do remember the dessert, which was labeled "ice cream." It was in a little single serve cup and wasn't ice cream, but more like flavorless milky crushed ice. The strange ice concoction was welcome, as the air conditioning was very inadequate and the cabin was hot and filled with cigarette smoke. The lavatories on the plane were absolutely disgusting, as it looked like people had no aim.
The nicest part of the transportation on that trip was taking the train from Guangzhou back to Hong Kong.
I'm glad to see that air travel in China has improved since those days.
We took the hydrofoil from HKG into Guangzhou and went through immigration/customs. We seemed to take a long time in a special room with the inspectors. It wasn't until we had left that we noticed the entire tour group was waiting on us. My parents and I were the only US citizens in this tour group, while the rest of the tour group were HKG citizens, and presumably they were given a quick pass while we got the "full service" immigration check.
We later flew to Beijing. I distinctly remember everybody smoking at the airport, as well as on our plane, a beat up, scary (to me) looking CAAC Ilyushin Il-62. The takeoff was delayed as the captain had to come out to the cabin to persuade a pax that had boarded with caged chickens as a carry-on, that he needed to put them below in the cargo hold. I don't remember much of the meal other than it was tasteless, but I do remember the dessert, which was labeled "ice cream." It was in a little single serve cup and wasn't ice cream, but more like flavorless milky crushed ice. The strange ice concoction was welcome, as the air conditioning was very inadequate and the cabin was hot and filled with cigarette smoke. The lavatories on the plane were absolutely disgusting, as it looked like people had no aim.
The nicest part of the transportation on that trip was taking the train from Guangzhou back to Hong Kong.
I'm glad to see that air travel in China has improved since those days.
Sep 23, 2016, 3:34 pm
#14
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: PEK
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My first flight as a kid was IEV-KHC on an AN-24. I remember being served mints and not much else. The flight back was KHC-DNK-IEV also on 2 AN-24s.
From my parents' stories, they said that the food served on board was, in hindsight, worse than the food on western airlines, but generally better than what you'd be able to get in a typical canteen.
Tickets were hard to get and did not use revenue management, and the supply to demand was obviously nowhere near reality. Just as with train tickets, you could cancel them and get most of your money back. Theoretically, if a flight was late due to Aeroflot, you could get compensation from the head of Aeroflot. In practice it was very difficult to do so. The rez system was put into place around the same time for Aeroflot and for the entire Soviet train system (late 1970s). It used a proprietary system that was developed in the USSR.
Trains were much more accessible (in terms of prices and supply of tickets), so travel by train was (and still is) more common domestically.
From my parents' stories, they said that the food served on board was, in hindsight, worse than the food on western airlines, but generally better than what you'd be able to get in a typical canteen.
Tickets were hard to get and did not use revenue management, and the supply to demand was obviously nowhere near reality. Just as with train tickets, you could cancel them and get most of your money back. Theoretically, if a flight was late due to Aeroflot, you could get compensation from the head of Aeroflot. In practice it was very difficult to do so. The rez system was put into place around the same time for Aeroflot and for the entire Soviet train system (late 1970s). It used a proprietary system that was developed in the USSR.
Trains were much more accessible (in terms of prices and supply of tickets), so travel by train was (and still is) more common domestically.
Sep 23, 2016, 4:04 pm
#15
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Northern Nevada
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Posts: 1,652
Flew in a Aeroflot Tu-154 SVO-TBS. Everything inside was green and gold and the ceiling had regular, bare, incandescent lights going down the aisle. It felt like a 50s motorhome with surly, military-esque service. On approach into TBS we lowered the gear and flew at low altitude for 15-20 minutes and landed on the roughest runway I have ever experienced.