Kangaroo Booking Fun!
#1
Original Poster




Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,642
Kangaroo Booking Fun!
Aside from my earlier thread (trying to sort out my domestic focus going forwards), I've got another item on the horizon: A long-awaited trip to Australia in December. While I've got a placeholder Y award ticket LAX-BNE parked, said ticket is fully refundable without fees (thank you Elevate Gold!), the idea of crossing the Pacific in Y was never high on my list...and VA appears to be even stingier with award space than either I or the staff at the time of the placeholder booking expected (the VX-AS merger may not be helping).
So, I need advice on picking a carrier to park a Business Class ticket with. I can get to any of the main international gateways in the US on VX with an "internal" award; ditto HNL. So US airport is basically "whatever". On the Australian end, as far as I'm concerned SYD, BNE, and MEL are co-terminals (there's an overnight train BNE-SYD and one MEL-SYD). Ditto Canberra.
As far as getting the rest of the way there, however, it gets...interesting:
-FJ is the cheapest carrier at $2508-ish for a one-way ticket LAX-SYD and $2091 HNL-SYD. Unfortunately, they don't have lie-flat BC (though I've heard it's still a decent angle-flat) and their refund fee is 50% of the initial fare ($1000-1200!). This is mildly problematic on the off chance my trip blows apart. On the plus side, you get a day in Fiji (and potentially a touch-and-go at Christmas Island).
-HA is next in line. If HA had their new lie-flats in place they'd probably be my go-to at their present pricing ($2782 HNL-SYD/$3435 LAX-HNL-SYD)...but that rollout appears to be going glacially slow. They're also apparently non-refundable; if they were refundable I'd be tempted to gamble on the lie-flats...but given that I can get a better seat on a ton of domestic DL and VX flights the idea of a recliner on a trans-pacific flight doesn't thrill me much more than Y does.
-OZ is a strange outlier more due to their strange marketing ("Business" is apparently an angle-flat product while "Business Smartium" is full-flat...jokes about someone being too smartium for their own good come to mind). Their pricing is more favorable than HA, and incidentally $2751 JFK-INC-SYD saves me a lot of domestic travel games. The $200 cancel fee isn't horrid, and that appears to be refundable.
-NZ is the cheapest of the lie-flat options (hovering around $3660) LAX-AKL-SYD/BNE. The refund fee is $500, though, which may eliminate it from contention.
-SQ is next ($3710-3740 SFO/LAX-SIN-SYD) and there's destination flexibility within a few dollars (they serve most of the main airports in Australia). The refund fee appears to be $300. It also looks like doing this would have a not-insignificant chance of knocking me to SQ Silver (partly due to basically tracing the Pacific Rim).
-VA is next at $4735, but no refund fee. This was my preferred carrier from the start (I will confess in part due to a certain meta of being able to stitch together a trip involving the "three Virgins"...VX in the US, VA to Australia, and VS HKG-LHR-IAD...but also because of what I've heard about VA, mostly in a positive light). Consider VA to be the "cost ceiling" for this trip.
CX and QF more or less eliminate themselves on cost ($4939 and $5037, respectively...plus $600 in cancel fees on QF), though QF gets the Unusual Pricing Award for charging less JFK-SYD than LAX-SYD, in spite of it being one flight.
So...my instinct says SQ from LAX/SFO (if I really want a lie-flat) or FJ from HNL if I'm not going to get too worked up over that. Am I missing any serious options (which don't overshoot VA in cost)? And for those who've done it, how much is lie-flat vs angle-flat worth?
Edit: Refund/cancel is important because, while I intend to be in Australia come hell or high water for a chunk of the trip, knowing the family I'm coordinating with I put the odds of a major implosion/explosion of the trip at about 1-in-5. Suffice it to say that there's a history to be had of vacation meltdowns.
Edit 2: One option I had forgotten: VA BC LAX-SYD-LAX comes to $3900 (someone please explain this insanity to me...the idea of an R/T being minimally more expensive than an O/W makes at least some sense, but being nearly $1000 less is just strange), which is why I had remembered a lower fare for the VA leg(s). Does anyone know what VA's policy is if I fly the outbound and then bin the return (since I've already got my return happening the long way around)? I'm also prepared to just stick with the round-trip since I'd only eat perhaps $150 in fees...or to book an insanely far-off return and screw with getting back to Oz later.
So, I need advice on picking a carrier to park a Business Class ticket with. I can get to any of the main international gateways in the US on VX with an "internal" award; ditto HNL. So US airport is basically "whatever". On the Australian end, as far as I'm concerned SYD, BNE, and MEL are co-terminals (there's an overnight train BNE-SYD and one MEL-SYD). Ditto Canberra.
As far as getting the rest of the way there, however, it gets...interesting:
-FJ is the cheapest carrier at $2508-ish for a one-way ticket LAX-SYD and $2091 HNL-SYD. Unfortunately, they don't have lie-flat BC (though I've heard it's still a decent angle-flat) and their refund fee is 50% of the initial fare ($1000-1200!). This is mildly problematic on the off chance my trip blows apart. On the plus side, you get a day in Fiji (and potentially a touch-and-go at Christmas Island).
-HA is next in line. If HA had their new lie-flats in place they'd probably be my go-to at their present pricing ($2782 HNL-SYD/$3435 LAX-HNL-SYD)...but that rollout appears to be going glacially slow. They're also apparently non-refundable; if they were refundable I'd be tempted to gamble on the lie-flats...but given that I can get a better seat on a ton of domestic DL and VX flights the idea of a recliner on a trans-pacific flight doesn't thrill me much more than Y does.
-OZ is a strange outlier more due to their strange marketing ("Business" is apparently an angle-flat product while "Business Smartium" is full-flat...jokes about someone being too smartium for their own good come to mind). Their pricing is more favorable than HA, and incidentally $2751 JFK-INC-SYD saves me a lot of domestic travel games. The $200 cancel fee isn't horrid, and that appears to be refundable.
-NZ is the cheapest of the lie-flat options (hovering around $3660) LAX-AKL-SYD/BNE. The refund fee is $500, though, which may eliminate it from contention.
-SQ is next ($3710-3740 SFO/LAX-SIN-SYD) and there's destination flexibility within a few dollars (they serve most of the main airports in Australia). The refund fee appears to be $300. It also looks like doing this would have a not-insignificant chance of knocking me to SQ Silver (partly due to basically tracing the Pacific Rim).
-VA is next at $4735, but no refund fee. This was my preferred carrier from the start (I will confess in part due to a certain meta of being able to stitch together a trip involving the "three Virgins"...VX in the US, VA to Australia, and VS HKG-LHR-IAD...but also because of what I've heard about VA, mostly in a positive light). Consider VA to be the "cost ceiling" for this trip.
CX and QF more or less eliminate themselves on cost ($4939 and $5037, respectively...plus $600 in cancel fees on QF), though QF gets the Unusual Pricing Award for charging less JFK-SYD than LAX-SYD, in spite of it being one flight.
So...my instinct says SQ from LAX/SFO (if I really want a lie-flat) or FJ from HNL if I'm not going to get too worked up over that. Am I missing any serious options (which don't overshoot VA in cost)? And for those who've done it, how much is lie-flat vs angle-flat worth?
Edit: Refund/cancel is important because, while I intend to be in Australia come hell or high water for a chunk of the trip, knowing the family I'm coordinating with I put the odds of a major implosion/explosion of the trip at about 1-in-5. Suffice it to say that there's a history to be had of vacation meltdowns.
Edit 2: One option I had forgotten: VA BC LAX-SYD-LAX comes to $3900 (someone please explain this insanity to me...the idea of an R/T being minimally more expensive than an O/W makes at least some sense, but being nearly $1000 less is just strange), which is why I had remembered a lower fare for the VA leg(s). Does anyone know what VA's policy is if I fly the outbound and then bin the return (since I've already got my return happening the long way around)? I'm also prepared to just stick with the round-trip since I'd only eat perhaps $150 in fees...or to book an insanely far-off return and screw with getting back to Oz later.
Last edited by GrayAnderson; Aug 30, 2016 at 4:43 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: BA Gold, QF WP
Posts: 12,551
As you've found, this is also factored in to the prices you're seeing. FJ/HA for example offer two mid length flights that don't allow for much sleep at a low price, whereas QF offers a non stop flight that allows enough time for meals and a decent sleep.
The price scale you've shown is pretty typical and roughly reflects the relative hard and soft products of the airlines and their schedules/routes. It is really up to you to decide what value you place on those.
Edit 2: One option I had forgotten: VA BC LAX-SYD-LAX comes to $3900 (someone please explain this insanity to me), which is why I had remembered a lower fare for the VA leg(s). Does anyone know what VA's policy is if I fly the outbound and then bin the return (since I've already got my return happening the long way around)? I'm also prepared to just stick with the round-trip since I'd only eat perhaps $150 in fees...or to book an insanely far-off return and screw with getting back to Oz later.
#3
Original Poster




Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,642
VA doesn't seem to accommodate mixing Y and J (Y+ and J, yes, but the difference there is around $200 and from what I can tell the Y+ fare is technically a "saver" fare whereas VA doesn't do "saver" fares for J...resulting in the "refundable" o/w Y+ fare costing less than the also-refundable r/t J fare)
#4

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: FRA (formerly JNB)
Programs: LH M&M
Posts: 169
Is this what you got from the website or did you try call? I have no experience with VA but I do know this isn't possible on many websites, but is no problem if you call the airline (or use a travel agent).
There may however be a restriction on which fares are combinable - for instance no deeply discounted Y together with J. But this too is possible on some airlines if you just call.
Edited to add: very important - when combining a refundable fare with a non-refundable one, the whole ticket might become non refundable. Best to check that if this is what you plan to do.
There may however be a restriction on which fares are combinable - for instance no deeply discounted Y together with J. But this too is possible on some airlines if you just call.
Edited to add: very important - when combining a refundable fare with a non-refundable one, the whole ticket might become non refundable. Best to check that if this is what you plan to do.
#5
Original Poster




Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,642
You've indirectly raised a good point...when I run a multi-city booking I seem to get different fare rules (when I was first booking I got what amounted to "Business Class is always refundable" until I went to book and got rather heavy fees...I've since cancelled that booking [24-hour rule FTW]).
For the moment, the name of the game is figuring out when I ought to book by. If I wind up with a few extra days in Australia it's not the end of the world...I have ways I can kill a few days in a pinch (there are trains I would otherwise have no chance to take...even if they go places I have no reason to go
).
For the moment, the name of the game is figuring out when I ought to book by. If I wind up with a few extra days in Australia it's not the end of the world...I have ways I can kill a few days in a pinch (there are trains I would otherwise have no chance to take...even if they go places I have no reason to go
).
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: May 1998
Location: Massachusetts, USA; AA 2.996MM & Plat Pro, DL 1MM, GM & Flying Colonel
Posts: 25,037
I had a similar situation involving a VA ticket that I couldn't book online despite trying several sites (VA's own, Delta, Kayak and a couple of others). A travel agent was more than worth her modest fee for that alone. She became worth her weight in gold later, when I returned to the States during Delta's computer meltdown and my LAX-BOS flight was cancelled. Delta rebooked me on something absurd. She got through to them in minutes and got the last remaining seat on the flight I wanted.
After eight visits to Australia, ranging in time from 1 1/2 hours to three weeks, I'm not even close to running out of things I haven't done or seen that I really want to do or see. I doubt you'll need to find stuff to fill time.

