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-   -   is Canada considered abroad? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1778142-canada-considered-abroad.html)

danielonn Jul 16, 2016 10:38 pm

Thanks for your replies.

tentseller Jul 17, 2016 3:40 pm


Originally Posted by pinniped (Post 26920997)
I've actually had this conversation with friends before. We went to dinner and a show in Windsor last year...joked about taking a "trip abroad". Or, since we did cross a body of water, "overseas". (OK, so it was a river...) :D
...

Congratulations: you are one of the rare American FTer who headed south to Canada.

Ber2dca Jul 18, 2016 1:31 pm


Originally Posted by Badenoch (Post 26915680)
For an American it's definitely "abroad" and once beyond the surface similarities it is a country with a very different history, culture and government.

The same applies to a Canadian going to the U.S. We would much rather say we are going "abroad" when what we are actually doing is spending the weekend in Buffalo. ;)

While Canada certainly has a different history, culture and government, I'd say 'very different' takes things a bit too far. As far as two separate countries go, (Anglo-)Canada and the US are probably about as similar to each other as two countries can be.

Badenoch Jul 18, 2016 4:18 pm


Originally Posted by Ber2dca (Post 26934397)
While Canada certainly has a different history, culture and government, I'd say 'very different' takes things a bit too far. As far as two separate countries go, (Anglo-)Canada and the US are probably about as similar to each other as two countries can be.

About as different as Ireland and England. ;)

Statman Jul 18, 2016 4:22 pm

Yes.............

Ber2dca Jul 18, 2016 4:48 pm


Originally Posted by Badenoch (Post 26935062)
About as different as Ireland and England. ;)

It's undeniable. Ireland was part of the UK for a long time and many things remained essentially the same after independence. To this day the countries have incredibly close links especially commercially but also culturally.

The main difference between the scenarios is that in spite of the closeness between Ireland and the UK there's significant and, among a minority, even militant antipathy on the Irish side toward Britain whereas I believe Canadian-American relations are almost entirely cordial (the occasional snark aside).

Badenoch Jul 19, 2016 6:53 am


Originally Posted by Ber2dca (Post 26935169)
It's undeniable. Ireland was part of the UK for a long time and many things remained essentially the same after independence. To this day the countries have incredibly close links especially commercially but also culturally.

The main difference between the scenarios is that in spite of the closeness between Ireland and the UK there's significant and, among a minority, even militant antipathy on the Irish side toward Britain whereas I believe Canadian-American relations are almost entirely cordial (the occasional snark aside).

The commercial ties between Canada and the U.S. are very strong. Both are each other's largest trading partner.

There is an element of anti-Americanism among Canadians although it hasn't been militant since American invaders were sent packing in 1814 and lost their nerve in 1846 when they signed the Oregon Treaty.

It's difficult for people who do not live here to not appreciate the differences. Americans frequently have a difficult time grasping that it's a different country when they visit or attempt to do business here.

FashionRCD Jul 19, 2016 7:11 am

I don't know ! hmm . maybe :)

tentseller Jul 19, 2016 7:30 am


Originally Posted by Badenoch (Post 26937441)
The commercial ties between Canada and the U.S. are very strong. Both are each other's largest trading partner.

There is an element of anti-Americanism among Canadians although it hasn't been militant since American invaders were sent packing in 1814 and lost their nerve in 1846 when they signed the Oregon Treaty.

It's difficult for people who do not live here to not appreciate the differences. Americans frequently have a difficult time grasping that it's a different country when they visit or attempt to do business here.

Where are the Targets?

Paraphrased quote from former Prime Minister:
Being so close to the US is like sleeping beside an elephant. Most of the time elephants are friendly. But when they move around in their sleep you are going to feel it.

dash1729 Jul 19, 2016 3:37 pm


Originally Posted by DocP (Post 26915651)
I wouldn't have phrased the question that way, but you officially enter the US inside your Canadian departure airport when flying from Canada to the US. I once had a significant flight delay from Toronto, and spent several hours in the Transborder area. At that point I was legally in the US, even though I was physically in Toronto. If I had wanted to get food or shop airside, I would have had to exit the US and re-enter Canada. The flight then lands as a US domestic flight at the destination US airport, as all border formalities were done in Canada.

What you say--that you are legally in the US once you enter the preclearance area at a Canadian airport--seems to be true in some contexts but not in others. If one's flight is cancelled, for example, and one is forced to leave the preclearance area as a result, I believe one has to go back through Canadian customs as one has already legally left Canada.

However when purchasing food in the preclearance area, one still pays Canadian federal and provincial harmonized sales tax (HST). And I believe that if one were to commit a crime in the preclearance area, it would be prosecuted under Canadian, not US, law (after all, most crimes in the US are prosecuted under state jurisdiction and it isn't obvious which US state would have jurisdiction in a US preclearance area).

dash1729 Jul 19, 2016 3:51 pm


Originally Posted by tentseller (Post 26929838)
Congratulations: you are one of the rare American FTer who headed south to Canada.

Well there is only one moderately sized Canadian city that lies south of Detroit but most of the Canadian population lives south of Seattle--so it isn't that rare.

Badenoch Jul 19, 2016 3:54 pm


Originally Posted by tentseller (Post 26937576)
Where are the Targets?

Paraphrased quote from former Prime Minister:
Being so close to the US is like sleeping beside an elephant. Most of the time elephants are friendly. But when they move around in their sleep you are going to feel it.

Target is a good example. They misread the market and how to do business here. A billion dollars later they went home with their tail tucked between their legs.

The Target nearest my home is being transformed into a Walmart. ;)

Tide_from_PAE Jul 20, 2016 12:38 am


Originally Posted by Badenoch (Post 26937441)
The commercial ties between Canada and the U.S. are very strong. Both are each other's largest trading partner.

There is an element of anti-Americanism among Canadians although it hasn't been militant since American invaders were sent packing in 1814 and lost their nerve in 1846 when they signed the Oregon Treaty.

It's difficult for people who do not live here to not appreciate the differences. Americans frequently have a difficult time grasping that it's a different country when they visit or attempt to do business here.


Originally Posted by Badenoch (Post 26940066)
Target is a good example. They misread the market and how to do business here. A billion dollars later they went home with their tail tucked between their legs.

The Target nearest my home is being transformed into a Walmart. ;)

Then you have companies such as Costco which expanded to Canada before expanding to much of the US and have been extremely successful in Canada.

For those who grew up fairly close to the border, going to Canada felt much like going to ones closest sibling's house (as the Peace Arch is inscribed, both countries are children of a common mother). It might not be your house, but you'll generally know where things are located and can easily spot the differences between your house and theirs.

LondonElite Jul 20, 2016 12:44 am


Originally Posted by dash1729 (Post 26940009)
What you say--that you are legally in the US once you enter the preclearance area at a Canadian airport--seems to be true in some contexts but not in others. If one's flight is cancelled, for example, and one is forced to leave the preclearance area as a result, I believe one has to go back through Canadian customs as one has already legally left Canada.

However when purchasing food in the preclearance area, one still pays Canadian federal and provincial harmonized sales tax (HST). And I believe that if one were to commit a crime in the preclearance area, it would be prosecuted under Canadian, not US, law (after all, most crimes in the US are prosecuted under state jurisdiction and it isn't obvious which US state would have jurisdiction in a US preclearance area).

It's just pre clearance. You are not on US soil in any sense of the word. You remain in Canada.

televisor Jul 20, 2016 8:15 am


Originally Posted by LondonElite (Post 26941522)
It's just pre clearance. You are not on US soil in any sense of the word. You remain in Canada.

But you've been admitted into the USA which is de-facto the equivalent.


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