Why is domestic first so horrible, and what are the alternatives?
May 18, 2015, 11:04 pm
#16
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May 19, 2015, 12:22 am
#18
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 290
People rag on US domestic travel, but US first class cabins are 100x better than "first" in Europe.
In fact, I think U.S. is leading innovation in domestic first class, especially in super competitive NYC-LAX and NYC-SFO routes. JetBlue Mint, Delta One, United PS, and AA 3-cabin service are all really exciting developments that have just happened over the last few years.
In fact, I think U.S. is leading innovation in domestic first class, especially in super competitive NYC-LAX and NYC-SFO routes. JetBlue Mint, Delta One, United PS, and AA 3-cabin service are all really exciting developments that have just happened over the last few years.
May 19, 2015, 2:10 am
#19
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Location: Canada, USA, Europe
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This is quite funny. We recently had a hotly-debated thread in the BA forum about why intra-European business class is so crap, and why can't it be more like the US model.
I guess everything depends on your perspective!
I guess everything depends on your perspective!
May 19, 2015, 3:27 am
#20
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K+K
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Posts: 4,871
People rag on US domestic travel, but US first class cabins are 100x better than "first" in Europe.
In fact, I think U.S. is leading innovation in domestic first class, especially in super competitive NYC-LAX and NYC-SFO routes. JetBlue Mint, Delta One, United PS, and AA 3-cabin service are all really exciting developments that have just happened over the last few years.
In fact, I think U.S. is leading innovation in domestic first class, especially in super competitive NYC-LAX and NYC-SFO routes. JetBlue Mint, Delta One, United PS, and AA 3-cabin service are all really exciting developments that have just happened over the last few years.
There are other distinction as well, such as lounge access. Better food (UA wraps or "cheeseburger", anybody?). And with many carriers, better service.
The seat honestly doesn't matter. Your lateral comfort is similar because of seat blocking.
Most routes are too far too short to notice.
Lets say Frankfurt to Barcelona... 700 miles.
Same distance as San Francisco to Phoenix... that's serviced by regional jets half the time, anyway.
US Transcon are incomparable. Thats a 6+ hour, 2500mi journey.
London to Istanbul covers 1500mi.
But London to Tel Aviv, still a shorter 2200mi, has fully lie-flat pod -- similar to the US premium services.
In both examples, i'll take the Euro version....
May 19, 2015, 3:30 am
#21
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K+K
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If you want private jet service, pay for it.
May 19, 2015, 4:34 am
#22
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SJC/SFO
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A few thoughts:
1. You're flying out of MCO, which is a leisure-heavy destination. That means lots of infrequent travelers who aren't familiar with security and boarding processes, families with overtired or overexcited kids, etc. It's part of the reality you need to accept in major commercial transportation.
2. Pay attention to which airlines and which flights are serving the route themselves ("mainline" service) vs. with a regional partner. Mainline service often means a bigger, more comfortable aircraft, especially in first class.
3. It seems as though you have significant control over when you fly. Consider flying at different times to avoid the worst crowds and delays, e.g. return home Friday at 10am instead of getting on the packed Thursday 6pm flight.
1. You're flying out of MCO, which is a leisure-heavy destination. That means lots of infrequent travelers who aren't familiar with security and boarding processes, families with overtired or overexcited kids, etc. It's part of the reality you need to accept in major commercial transportation.
2. Pay attention to which airlines and which flights are serving the route themselves ("mainline" service) vs. with a regional partner. Mainline service often means a bigger, more comfortable aircraft, especially in first class.
3. It seems as though you have significant control over when you fly. Consider flying at different times to avoid the worst crowds and delays, e.g. return home Friday at 10am instead of getting on the packed Thursday 6pm flight.
May 19, 2015, 4:38 am
#23
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May 19, 2015, 5:02 am
#24
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NYC
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If you dont already have TSA pre-check, sign up for it immediately.
Unfortunately the domestic F product is a function of what passenegers are willing to pay. If UA could fill their F cabin with folks paying $2000 on an MCO->ORD route you'd likely have a nicer cabin, better food, even larger seats, etc.....
Unfortunately most people in F are 'upgraded' and many others are paying $100-$200 more for the seat. Not exactly big bucks and thus the airlines are giving marginal service.
By comparison, look at what the airlines are doing on the NYC->LAX routes. A far and away better experience (on Delta and JetBlue at least) but thats a route that can support enough people paying the high fares. I've flown JFK->LAX once in Delta biz class and it was far and away better than the premium service i get on a NYC->Chicago/Miami/New Orleans run.
Unfortunately the domestic F product is a function of what passenegers are willing to pay. If UA could fill their F cabin with folks paying $2000 on an MCO->ORD route you'd likely have a nicer cabin, better food, even larger seats, etc.....
Unfortunately most people in F are 'upgraded' and many others are paying $100-$200 more for the seat. Not exactly big bucks and thus the airlines are giving marginal service.
By comparison, look at what the airlines are doing on the NYC->LAX routes. A far and away better experience (on Delta and JetBlue at least) but thats a route that can support enough people paying the high fares. I've flown JFK->LAX once in Delta biz class and it was far and away better than the premium service i get on a NYC->Chicago/Miami/New Orleans run.
May 19, 2015, 6:41 am
#25
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: The place where it gets so hot in the summer some planes can't take off.
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Why is domestic first so horrible, and what are the alternatives?
From a technology perspective do you have all SSD (I assume multiple disks) and have you checked whether you can disable cores in BIOS (properly configured and modern OS should throttle idle cores) as well as disabling non embedded GPU? You should be able to run for hours in power saving mode or through some manual configuration. If not I'd invest in a tablet... What do you do when working remote and there are no outlets available?
May 19, 2015, 7:42 am
#26
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Programs: AC*E, HH*G
Posts: 177
If your system draws more than this, this could trigger the circuit protection of the in-seat power and turn off the power, which you could interpret as "not working" but is working by design.
May 19, 2015, 7:58 am
#27
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I find domestic first pretty good!!!
Usually I try to book widebody equipment (748, 77W, 788, 333), these widebodies fly a lot on the key trunk routes PEK-CAN, CAN-PVG/SHA and PEK-PVG/SHA. Service on CA, MU, CZ on these domestic flights is also good, including the food.
A flatbed in 788 can sometimes be bought for USD 160 one-way.
One only has to be careful with lounges, outside of meal hours, they do not offer hot food.
Moreover, the airlines call it first class. In reality they only give you the business class seats.
Even if there is a massive delay due to the air traffic congestion. The FAs allow you to go flat on your bed, while the aircraft is waiting on the tarmac.
Usually I try to book widebody equipment (748, 77W, 788, 333), these widebodies fly a lot on the key trunk routes PEK-CAN, CAN-PVG/SHA and PEK-PVG/SHA. Service on CA, MU, CZ on these domestic flights is also good, including the food.
A flatbed in 788 can sometimes be bought for USD 160 one-way.
One only has to be careful with lounges, outside of meal hours, they do not offer hot food.
Moreover, the airlines call it first class. In reality they only give you the business class seats.
Even if there is a massive delay due to the air traffic congestion. The FAs allow you to go flat on your bed, while the aircraft is waiting on the tarmac.
May 19, 2015, 9:48 am
#28
Join Date: Apr 2005
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US 'First' (domestic) and Euro 'Business' are both pretty ordinary when you compare them to Australian 'Business' (domestic) and Gulf 'First/Business' (intra-Gulf).
Wide seats including some fully flat, full catering even on flights of 40 minutes.
Companies will provide whatever customers are prepared to put up with!
Wide seats including some fully flat, full catering even on flights of 40 minutes.
Companies will provide whatever customers are prepared to put up with!
May 19, 2015, 10:16 am
#30
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For what I pay for it (next to nothing), U.S. domestic F is a fantastic value. 
The problem (for those who want it to be more like a private jet) is that not many people are willing to pay a lot for it. That's probably normal for a mature form of public transportation: over time, we mainly want it to get cheaper, more reliable, and safer. We want the technology to mainly make the product better in those ways, with the market segment that wants it more expensive and more luxurious being a much smaller niche.
And since that niche is small, airlines will focus their premium products where they think people will buy them...and that generally isn't short hops out of MCO.
The problem (for those who want it to be more like a private jet) is that not many people are willing to pay a lot for it. That's probably normal for a mature form of public transportation: over time, we mainly want it to get cheaper, more reliable, and safer. We want the technology to mainly make the product better in those ways, with the market segment that wants it more expensive and more luxurious being a much smaller niche.
And since that niche is small, airlines will focus their premium products where they think people will buy them...and that generally isn't short hops out of MCO.