Window Shade Etiquette
Apr 21, 2015, 5:27 am
#16
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: MCO
Programs: DL-DM/1MM, HILTON-DIA, .HYATT-DIA/GLOB , IHG-PLT,HERTZ 5*, NATIONAL ES
Posts: 8,691
Exactly. And if they want to sleep, book window seat and control the shade. Seems like a simple solution.
Apr 21, 2015, 5:57 am
#17
Join Date: Jun 2013
Programs: DL Plat, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, Hertz Prez Circle, National Exec
Posts: 1,357
Agree on that. I go for the aisle myself but I consider the window shade position to be the prerogative of the person sitting in the window seat. The only two situations that I consider annoying are if someone is constantly moving the shade up and down when it is very bright outside, and during flights around dawn when the person at the window doesn't notice that the sun is glaring right into someone's eyes. Other than that I could care less, and think the default position should be open so people can look out (though I don't mind if the person on the window chooses to put it down). If somebody wants to sleep they can put on an eye mask, just like if somebody is cold they can put on a blanket. Looking out the window, even just at clouds, is a joy of flying.
Apr 21, 2015, 6:50 am
#18
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
Ultimately the position of the window blind is the prerogative of the cabin crew. Until they get involved though it belongs to the person in the window seat.
The passenger who ignores requests from the cabin crew to lower the blind should also understand however that when sitting in the aisle seat it is my prerogative to stand up when you need to use the lavatory.
If you flood the cabin with sunlight after the crew has asked you nicely to lower the blind I'd suggest you go easy on the coffee or have sufficient dexterity to climb over me and the tray table when you need to pee. Otherwise keep your legs crossed and enjoy the view.
The passenger who ignores requests from the cabin crew to lower the blind should also understand however that when sitting in the aisle seat it is my prerogative to stand up when you need to use the lavatory.
If you flood the cabin with sunlight after the crew has asked you nicely to lower the blind I'd suggest you go easy on the coffee or have sufficient dexterity to climb over me and the tray table when you need to pee. Otherwise keep your legs crossed and enjoy the view.
Apr 21, 2015, 7:10 am
#19
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: gggrrrovvveee (ORD)
Programs: UA Pt, Marriott Ti, Hertz PC
Posts: 6,091
Perhaps we can merge this into one of the existing discussions...
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...dow-shade.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...g-flights.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...de-closed.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...-question.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...dow-shade.html
I've been hit by the glare from across the aisle multiple times. 
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...dow-shade.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...g-flights.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...de-closed.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...-question.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...dow-shade.html
Apr 21, 2015, 7:46 am
#20
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,790
As a window seat person, it is expected of me (and polite) to close the window shade on International/Hawaii/Redeye flights, and I do. On a domestic flight/Caribbean/Canada/Mexico etc, don't even bother, I won't lower it unless it bothers me to.
Apr 21, 2015, 7:58 am
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bangkok or San Francisco
Programs: United 1k, Marriott Lifetime PE, Former DL Gold, Former SQ Solitaire, HH Gold
Posts: 11,886
I love the window seat and love the shade up. Having said that, I don't have a problem shutting the shade if it being opened is intrusive to fellow passengers, ie sun angle, red eye flights, immediate seatmate request etc.Within reason. Last week a guy across the row, sends the flt att over with his request that my shade be lowered.I found this off-putting because none of the usual reasons, glare, sleeping etc existed.My question is, where do you draw the line between proper etiquette and what's acceptable for other's comfort vs your own preference? Thanks
Unless the person in the window seat can also control the sun then you're wrong.
Apr 21, 2015, 9:36 am
#22
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 506
I love the window seat and love the shade up. Having said that, I don't have a problem shutting the shade if it being opened is intrusive to fellow passengers, ie sun angle, red eye flights, immediate seatmate request etc.Within reason. Last week a guy across the row, sends the flt att over with his request that my shade be lowered.I found this off-putting because none of the usual reasons, glare, sleeping etc existed.My question is, where do you draw the line between proper etiquette and what's acceptable for other's comfort vs your own preference? Thanks
avoid an incident.
If it is a request then I would say it is like a seat swap
request and you can deny.
I too enjoy viewing outside and it also causes me to
feel less claustrophobic in the smaller aircraft.
Apr 21, 2015, 9:49 am
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: Delta Diamond MM Hyatt Plat Starwoods SPG
Posts: 91
OP, were you flying from Madrid in BusinessElite? If so, this could be a fun coincidence: I actually spoke with a flight attendant and made this request on a flight from there, so I might be the person you're complaining about if so.
In my case, the flight was timed as a 10am departure, Madrid time, and a 3pm arrival into ATL. While that might seem like a daytime flight at first glance, I needed to sleep on the flight to reset my body clock for jetlag: my final destination timezone wasn't EST, and from the perspective of PST it was my only chance to actually get a good night's rest.
It wasn't my choice to be on that flight, by the way - my original CDG-SEA flight got cancelled, and this was the only one Delta could rebook me on due to the way the departure times worked out.
I try using eye masks, but they don't block out natural light very well at altitude: the way the sun was shining into the aircraft, the light from the two passengers' windows that were fully open in the cabin hit my seat at full blast. Natural light is a powerful signal to the body's sleep cycle, and it's really difficult to get a few hours worth of solid sleep when the cabin is bathed in it. Invariably, when I wake up mid-flight, I look up to discover someone has opened their shade to look outside, and my body interpreted it as sunrise...
During domestic flights, I have no expectation for windowshades - they're controlled by the passenger in the window seats. ^
On international flights in J, though, almost all of them are timed as night flights for somewhere, and it's likely someone needs to sleep. My typical etiquette when seated at a window is to lower my shade and use the reading lights while the cabin lights are dimmed (e.g. from first meal service to second meal service); before and after those times, it's totally reasonable to keep the windows open.
This is a long-time topic of debate on FT; it usually degenerates into arguments about who has the "right" to take one course of action or the other. I look at it differently - it's just a voluntary act of courtesy from one passenger to the others sharing the cabin.
Different airlines have different takes, too; many of the Asian carriers I've flown pass through the cabin and politely ask others to dim their shades so others may sleep during the middle of the flight. I think that's a nice touch - someone who isn't trying to sleep to beat jet lag might not even realize the impact they were having on the other travelers in the cabin. Some European carriers I've flown just forcibly reach across the seat and shut everyone's shades, which I don't support.
On my particular flight, I asked the flight attendant because there were multiple windows open and I felt it would have been inefficient and disruptive to speak with everyone myself. I actually chose that route partly because many of the Seattle based crews do that automatically, and I actually thought it was part of the DL service standard as a result - but mostly because I was trying to be courteous to the passengers with their windows open and minimize the disruption of being approached by a random other passenger. In the case someone else cited where someone has a legitimate medical condition where they need the shade open, I feel the F/A is better equipped to have that discussion than I am.
Unfortunately, neither of the two passengers who wanted their windows open were willing to be courteous and lower their shades; fortunately, the flight wasn't full and the flight attendant was able to offer me an alternate seat in the rear of the cabin where I was able to get some sleep.
Whether or not you were on my flight, hopefully this offers some perspective and you'll reconsider your stance on a future trip.
In my case, the flight was timed as a 10am departure, Madrid time, and a 3pm arrival into ATL. While that might seem like a daytime flight at first glance, I needed to sleep on the flight to reset my body clock for jetlag: my final destination timezone wasn't EST, and from the perspective of PST it was my only chance to actually get a good night's rest.
It wasn't my choice to be on that flight, by the way - my original CDG-SEA flight got cancelled, and this was the only one Delta could rebook me on due to the way the departure times worked out.
I try using eye masks, but they don't block out natural light very well at altitude: the way the sun was shining into the aircraft, the light from the two passengers' windows that were fully open in the cabin hit my seat at full blast. Natural light is a powerful signal to the body's sleep cycle, and it's really difficult to get a few hours worth of solid sleep when the cabin is bathed in it. Invariably, when I wake up mid-flight, I look up to discover someone has opened their shade to look outside, and my body interpreted it as sunrise...
During domestic flights, I have no expectation for windowshades - they're controlled by the passenger in the window seats. ^
On international flights in J, though, almost all of them are timed as night flights for somewhere, and it's likely someone needs to sleep. My typical etiquette when seated at a window is to lower my shade and use the reading lights while the cabin lights are dimmed (e.g. from first meal service to second meal service); before and after those times, it's totally reasonable to keep the windows open.
This is a long-time topic of debate on FT; it usually degenerates into arguments about who has the "right" to take one course of action or the other. I look at it differently - it's just a voluntary act of courtesy from one passenger to the others sharing the cabin.
Different airlines have different takes, too; many of the Asian carriers I've flown pass through the cabin and politely ask others to dim their shades so others may sleep during the middle of the flight. I think that's a nice touch - someone who isn't trying to sleep to beat jet lag might not even realize the impact they were having on the other travelers in the cabin. Some European carriers I've flown just forcibly reach across the seat and shut everyone's shades, which I don't support.
On my particular flight, I asked the flight attendant because there were multiple windows open and I felt it would have been inefficient and disruptive to speak with everyone myself. I actually chose that route partly because many of the Seattle based crews do that automatically, and I actually thought it was part of the DL service standard as a result - but mostly because I was trying to be courteous to the passengers with their windows open and minimize the disruption of being approached by a random other passenger. In the case someone else cited where someone has a legitimate medical condition where they need the shade open, I feel the F/A is better equipped to have that discussion than I am.
Unfortunately, neither of the two passengers who wanted their windows open were willing to be courteous and lower their shades; fortunately, the flight wasn't full and the flight attendant was able to offer me an alternate seat in the rear of the cabin where I was able to get some sleep.
Whether or not you were on my flight, hopefully this offers some perspective and you'll reconsider your stance on a future trip.
Last edited by Ocn Vw 1K; Apr 21, 2015 at 9:58 am Reason: To combine consecutive posts of same member.
Apr 21, 2015, 11:43 am
#24
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atherton, CA
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Owner, Green Bay Packers
Posts: 21,690
I'm surprised that people who claim claustrophobia would book a window seat where they are blocked in by other passengers. 
I don't think I've ever run into someone who wouldn't shut the shade when the sun is shining into my eyes and I have asked nicely. A month or two ago, I even had a guy go to great lengths to McGyver a solution to a shade which wouldn't stay shut (it was one of those that pull UP to shut).
I don't think I've ever run into someone who wouldn't shut the shade when the sun is shining into my eyes and I have asked nicely. A month or two ago, I even had a guy go to great lengths to McGyver a solution to a shade which wouldn't stay shut (it was one of those that pull UP to shut).
Apr 21, 2015, 12:08 pm
#26
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,684
It's a request. You can always so no. I don't see why this is an issue. The FA has to at least ask you or they could easily have a complaint against them. There's nothing wrong with asking people anything in this world. Most of us exist because at some point someone asked a question to someone else for which they usually answer no.
Were guy across the aisle so concerned about light, he could book a window seat or arrange for some travel gadgets that would help deal with the sun in his eyes or on a screen.
Were guy across the aisle so concerned about light, he could book a window seat or arrange for some travel gadgets that would help deal with the sun in his eyes or on a screen.
Apr 21, 2015, 12:18 pm
#29
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: midwest
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 920
I think it's quite rude to keep the shade open when it's supposed to be a "sleeping" flight or long enough when people do want to sleep...
There is often nothing to see. If you want to look go to the galley where there is often a window on the exit door. ... You may control the window shade but you also control your level of courtesy and consideration to others.
There is often nothing to see. If you want to look go to the galley where there is often a window on the exit door. ... You may control the window shade but you also control your level of courtesy and consideration to others.
I select window seats because being able to see out makes a huge difference in my comfort/anxiety level when flying. I am not an inconsiderate oaf, however. If I notice that a pax near me is trying to use their laptop or IFE and glare is an issue, I'll do 1/2 shade, position myself to try and block as much light as possible, etc.
And on eastbound TATLs, especially in summer, I get that sunrise is much too early and just take a pill, close the blind, and try and chill/sleep. But that isn't practical on short flights - medications often have an 8 hour impact and suggest not driving, which is not an option if I have a 2hr hop to DEN and am getting a rental car.
So in the vein of "courtesy and consideration to others" I hope those of you who expect shade-down compliance will be mindful that flying in a small metal tube with no view out can be very uncomfortable/anxiety inducing for some pax.
Apr 21, 2015, 1:44 pm
#30
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Anglia UK
Programs: BA-S UA LH-Sen KLM/AF-Plat.
Posts: 1,627
That is why I almost always get a window . Almost nobody NEEDS to look at the top of clouds. On a flight where I am 12 hours out of phase with my home time, I need to rest / sleep without some jerk keeping the shade up so he / she can stare at nothingness..........
Folks, there is nothing to see except cloud tops and / or vast expanses of ocean - not very exciting to most sane people.
Folks, there is nothing to see except cloud tops and / or vast expanses of ocean - not very exciting to most sane people.