Good evening all....

Just a quick question thats been unsettling me this week - as a fairy nervous (but regular) flyer I do enjoy the routine of a departure process I can follow to keep me calm - one thing that struck me this week on a departure on an icy morning was a different process for managing the flaps.

I always notice the flaps move into position after push back before we start moving forward - on this occasion the flight was de-iced and after pushback NO FLAP MOVEMENT - which caused me a slight panic and started running through all the crashes over the years in my mind caused by incorrect flap deployment.

Anyway - using up all my energy not to run down the aisle shouting FLAPS I finally calmed down as we turned onto the take off runway and the flaps moved into position as we were powering up - I guess there are many fail safes in place in these instances but wondering if this could have been pilot error not following the checklist or standard procedure after de-icing to prevent further build up of ice?

Any insights as always much appreciated ...

C

Depending on aircraft type there are various fail safe devices that provide visual and audible warnings.

I am no expert but, maybe it was in connection with the de-ice process.

Thought that might be the case - it was an A320. Just never experienced it on hundreds of flights and hence the routine changed freaked me

C

I think the Airbus family of aircraft have a number of devices to remind the pilots about take off config.

I am sure you were thinking about the MD-80 out of Madrid where an electrical circuit had been disabled and that turned off the flap config warning.

It didnt end well that day so, as you are a regular traveller who expects certain things to happen in a certain order I can understand your concern.

There may be reasons not to extend the flaps after pushback and before taxi. I would generally think that flaps are done prior to taxi, but they don't have to be. In any case, there was a point when they are done, and even if they are missed the flaps are checked at the before takeoff checklist. The checklist is there not as a prompt to do something, but as a check an action or setting has been done. Flaps aren't in the before taxi checklist so I don't think this was a case of them being missed during that checklist.

Thanks for the info. Interesting that its not in the checklist but every flight I've taken with BA flaps are extended before taxi...

C

Yes the dramatic end to that flight certainly came to mind whilst my face was pressed against the window longing for the flaps to move

Just to declare, I am not a pilot but I do have probably 100 hrs in 737-800 fixed base simulators and I am pretty familiar with checklists and also the flows for each stage. I don't have any time on a320 series but I have checked a320 checklists as well to see what they state.

Having said all that, extending flaps is something which is usually done after pushback and engine start, and it is in my flows at that stage. However, there is no requirement for it to be done at that stage, and as you say they may not have been done due to the expected de-icing. The flaps check is in the before takeoff checklist though.

Anyway, based on what you have written I wouldn't be too worried. Things don't always happen at the same stage or in the same sequence for many reasons.

Anyway, based on what you have written I wouldn't be too worried. Things don't always happen at the same stage or in the same sequence for many reasons.[/QUOTE]

Changing routine always sets my heart racing ... much like when they forget to do 'bing bing' after take off - is that in the checklist????

Are you thinking of the bong immediately after takeoff why denotes the gear up?

In any case, after takeoff checklist does not list any chimes or bongs.

The flaps aren't usually set until after de-icing.

Theres also an electronic checklist on the display of the A320 series which will note anything in red that hasn't been set - such as auto brakes, spoilers armed (in case of an RTO). If the engines are powered up past a certain point and any of these points have been missed, it will trigger the master warning alarm.

Also, if you happen to land at an airport and the outside air temperature is over 100 degrees, the flaps won't be retracted fully after landing.

Yes - the familiar 'bong' thats always encouraging after take off. Another panic moment when I don't hear it.

Great thanks for info - in this case de-icing was completed at the gate and still no flaps after pushback. Because it was out of routine I suppose I'm wondering if in this instance they were set at the last minute due to the system prompting the flight crew or if it was in some way related to the icy conditions.

Yeah, thats the gear up chime. It happens again just before landing when the gear goes back down again.

The reason why you may not hear it is if theres been a long taxi on a warm day and the flight crew have left the gear down for a little longer than usual to cool the brakes off. The only affect this will have on the flight is that it will give you a few less MPG!

Thanks, procedures under de-icing was what I didn't know.

No electronic checklist in a 737! There is takeoff config warning horn though.