Hidden city - specific question
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA the REAL Washington; occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: AS MVPG 100K (Atmos Titanium) / 0.5MM; DL fallen PM (1.58MM = Complimentary Annual GM); AA Gold
Posts: 24,488
the ELM-DTW-MCO ticket is a "contract" between the OP and DL for air transportation between origin and destination
DL only serves DTW from ELM so questions about IROPS rerouting are moot
it's entirely up to the OP in terms of the ethics of using hidden-city ticketing
DL only serves DTW from ELM so questions about IROPS rerouting are moot
it's entirely up to the OP in terms of the ethics of using hidden-city ticketing
#17
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: STR
Programs: UA Slvr, DL Slvr, IHG Plt, SPG Gld
Posts: 197
Hidden city - specific question
I think using the term fraud is a bit unfair. OP and the airline agreed to a contract with specific terms and conditions, including penalties for violation of the hidden city clause. Depending on how it's written, the airline may choose to enforce those penalties, if the OP violates that rule. The penalty could include forfeiture of ff account, monetary penalties, or ban on future services. If the OP wants to take that risk, it's OP's choice to make. I would not expect the airline to be sympathetic to your plight, and if irrops occur, OP would be in an even worse situation.
#19
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K2MM, HH Diamond (LT), Mar Plat, Avis First
Posts: 122
OP having read the COC provisions can easily figure out how to purchase lawful transportation to/from the location he wishes to visit.
In the latest hypothetical, in order to save $100, OP places himself at risk for two change/cancellation fees if there is any issue with his travel. If he buys a one-way ELM-DTW-XXX and another one-way DTW-ELM, that will cost him roughly $750 ($250 + $500). But, if by any chance he has to cancel his trip, it will cost him $400 instead of $200 to do so (each ticket gets its own change fee). And, if there's WX or some other issue on the ELM-DTW which causes you to cancel your trip (without penalty), you are still stuck with an unused return for which you paid $500 and have to pay a $200 penalty to use.
FT is full of examples of just how easily this stuff goes wrong. Committing fraud to save $100 and then losing significantly more than than when circumstances go wrong, is a lose-lose.
In the latest hypothetical, in order to save $100, OP places himself at risk for two change/cancellation fees if there is any issue with his travel. If he buys a one-way ELM-DTW-XXX and another one-way DTW-ELM, that will cost him roughly $750 ($250 + $500). But, if by any chance he has to cancel his trip, it will cost him $400 instead of $200 to do so (each ticket gets its own change fee). And, if there's WX or some other issue on the ELM-DTW which causes you to cancel your trip (without penalty), you are still stuck with an unused return for which you paid $500 and have to pay a $200 penalty to use.
FT is full of examples of just how easily this stuff goes wrong. Committing fraud to save $100 and then losing significantly more than than when circumstances go wrong, is a lose-lose.
All the response so far from the OP is showing that he thinks this is common practices, and nearly all post on FTs on this subject on various forums states that one should not do it, as the carrier can imposed numerous actions or penalties, such as suspending your FF account, recalculating the charge, etc.
All response so far has stated "Don't do it", debating whether you should have the right to do it is a moot point.
#20
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Rio de Janeiro, BRAZIL
Programs: AA 4MM EXP; Starwood Lifetime Plt
Posts: 2,498
Wouldn't two round-trips, throwing away the extra segment as well as the return, come out cheaper? If you don't put in your frequent flyer number you should be ok, although the moral qualms (if you have them) don't change. Throwing away the return of a round-trip (although not with a hidden city) is something that was obligatory at an agency I used to work with. It was in the day of printed tickets, and they didn't even bother giving the traveler the return coupon. Of course, things may have changed ...
#21
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 16
I know this route and have flown it often, although my final destination is not Detroit. I am a newbie too, but as many of the experienced FT people above recommend, don't do this. If you purchased your ticket yesterday, you have 24 hours to cancel. Cancel it and rebook. I looked at some fares for the route you want and, of course it depends on when you want to fly but, the fare is 491 and up. Book a round trip and be safe.
Last edited by mehndi; Oct 19, 2013 at 9:20 am Reason: Correct airline price.
#22




Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Diamond, HH Diamond, DL Diamond and 2MM
Posts: 3,637
since you just purchased this today, you can cancel the entire reservation with no penalty
then, as others have suggested, see if you can purchase ELM-DTW-MCO one way for $125 and DTW-ELM for $425
alternatively, look for connections (such as FNT or LAN or GRR) that might drive down the cost of the return flight and are still close enough to DTW where you could actually get there and fly both segments
then, as others have suggested, see if you can purchase ELM-DTW-MCO one way for $125 and DTW-ELM for $425
alternatively, look for connections (such as FNT or LAN or GRR) that might drive down the cost of the return flight and are still close enough to DTW where you could actually get there and fly both segments
One-way ticket AAA-BBB-CCC and skip the BBB-CCC segment
One-way ticket BBB-AAA (not possible to hidden city the return)
If booked separately, skipping BBB-CCC does not cause the airline to cancel the return one-way flight.
You can't check luggage to BBB, except for an international trip where BBB is the arrival city for US customs.
#23




Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Diamond, HH Diamond, DL Diamond and 2MM
Posts: 3,637
Wouldn't two round-trips, throwing away the extra segment as well as the return, come out cheaper? If you don't put in your frequent flyer number you should be ok, although the moral qualms (if you have them) don't change. Throwing away the return of a round-trip (although not with a hidden city) is something that was obligatory at an agency I used to work with. It was in the day of printed tickets, and they didn't even bother giving the traveler the return coupon.
Double roundtrips can still theoretically be booked for the purpose of evading Saturday night stay requirements. However, a human travel agent is unlikely to cooperate with such a scheme. It also might be caught by the airline because the dual trips are visible in the passenger's record of upcoming trips. This does work, however, if the roundtrips are booked on DIFFERENT airlines.
Last edited by Bowgie; Oct 19, 2013 at 11:49 am
#24
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 10
Thanks everyone for your replies. What ended up happening is at the airport they simply dropped the last segment of the flight for me, for no additional charges. Though I wont do this again as it was kind of a pain, I saved around 700 dollars for my trip. Back to my capitalism point, it's really not something to laugh at, yet something to respect. I think that using common sense, a flight to Orlando should cost more than a flight 1 hour away, considering airline expenses. However, obviously pricing has nothing to do with mileage/gas, but only with competition/economics. I believe that what I practiced is capitalism, though I understand that I agree to a contract with the airlines when I purchase their product. Just as the airlines find "tricks" to charge more, being pricing more due to less competition per route or by charging for luggage, I have every right to find "tricks" that save me money (as long as it's not against US law, and as long as it doesnt hurt me), thus it's a free market. All in all, this trip taught me a lot, and I will always look to find what suits me best, in the air and on the ground
Thanks all for clarifying this for me, and happy flying!
Thanks all for clarifying this for me, and happy flying!
#25


Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Virginia City Highlands
Programs: Nothing anymore after 20 years
Posts: 7,190
#27




Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Silver. (Former UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat)
Posts: 9,557
Did you look at USAirways for your trip? Looks like they have round trip ELM-DTW fares as low as $360. Of course you'll have to connect through Philly if you don't want to pay the premium to fly non-stop on delta.
#28
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2012
Programs: DL FO/KM, AA PLT
Posts: 2,593
Thanks everyone for your replies. What ended up happening is at the airport they simply dropped the last segment of the flight for me, for no additional charges. Though I wont do this again as it was kind of a pain, I saved around 700 dollars for my trip. Back to my capitalism point, it's really not something to laugh at, yet something to respect. I think that using common sense, a flight to Orlando should cost more than a flight 1 hour away, considering airline expenses. However, obviously pricing has nothing to do with mileage/gas, but only with competition/economics. I believe that what I practiced is capitalism, though I understand that I agree to a contract with the airlines when I purchase their product. Just as the airlines find "tricks" to charge more, being pricing more due to less competition per route or by charging for luggage, I have every right to find "tricks" that save me money (as long as it's not against US law, and as long as it doesnt hurt me), thus it's a free market. All in all, this trip taught me a lot, and I will always look to find what suits me best, in the air and on the ground
Thanks all for clarifying this for me, and happy flying!
Thanks all for clarifying this for me, and happy flying!
Just for future reference, it's not an issue with this example because DL only goes through DTW from Elmira, but hidden city ticketing does come with risks - one of those risks is that the airline has no obligation to transport you through the hub in which you plan to terminate, but only a resposibility to get you to your ticketed destination. For example, if you were booked BUF-DTW-MCO and planning to get off in DTW, and then the BUF-DTW flight gets cancelled, DL is free to reroute you via any of its hubs it serves from BUF to get you to MCO. For this reason, it's recommended that anyone planning to engage in "Hidden City" use cities close to their planned destination, such as FNT for DTW or CHA for ATL so that if you are rerouted, you're still close to your actual destination. Also, don't plan to check any bags - they will be routed to your final ticketed destination.
The other risk (which has been covered in this discussion); technically the airline has the right to go back and charge you the fare for the route you ended up flying rather than the route you were ticketed. If you keep your hidden city tickets to a minimum, you can get away with it; make a frequent occurence, and the airline might come after you.
Last edited by FlyDeltaJets87; Oct 22, 2013 at 1:15 pm

