B747-437B

I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

invisible

OK, the question was for people who left US. I have a little bit richer background - born in former Soviet Union, on move since I was 21, lived in 5 different countries.

1.5 year ago left San Francisco Bay Area and moved to Singapore. Well, experience has been mixed.

Fun: if you include access to whole South East Asia - definitely. You have option to go to places on weekends while for an average person in US/Europe it would be once in a lifetime opportunity.

Affordable: no way. Unless one is VP or above Fortune 500 company with all expenses paid by the company. Simple rule of thumb - you need to make sure that all or at least half of your housing expenses will be paid by the company. Which, again, won't happen unless you are VP of F500. If you don't and would like to have 'same qualify' life as in US expect that your rent will be 2.5x-10x higher than in US. The same is applicable for schools and food - if you are not willing to change your diet/want to cook everything at home or you want to educate your kids at American school expect to pay for all this privileges 3x-5x higher than in US. In summary, minimum expenses for a family with 2 kids in private schools and renting a house/condo ends up to be $200K-$250K/year.

Safe: if it is street crime, sanitary issues - very. To the point that it sometimes looks artificial/sterile. At the same time, if you lose your job you have one week to get out from the country and you will have no way to recover two month security deposit for your rental home.

But in essence, I started to enjoy my time here, however my wife had a really hard time to the point that she had to go back to States for several month.

deniah

I'm an US immigrant expatriating in a central european country. One of those consistently voted-best-places-in-the-world-to-live cities.

The downside compared to the US is accessibility. Firstly in terms of automation and electronization. For better or worse, in America, one can operate and maintain one's life entirely at home without interacting with a single human: deposit checks, renew driver's license, setup insurance policy, etc.

Secondly is consumerism. Nowhere can one buy as many goods, as cheaply, as readily and quickly, as in America. You could order a left-handed toenail clipper at 3am and have it delivered by the afternoon.

Food. It's simply not as good or diverse here, sadly. (Compared to major metro area... not Topeka Kansas)

The pros are various and numerous. I decided to attend a music festival this weekend. Hopped in the car and drove a few hours, and ended up crossing multiple countries. That still appeals to the adventurist in me.

This expatriation was mine to initiative so obviously I would do it again

mandolino

You can do all those things online in the UK - well, you could if anyone used cheques anymore. I guess not all European countries are equal on that score.

Donk2001

Its a lateral move within my company , but would come with a decent raise. I would move in a heartbeat except for my two daughters, 16 & 13. We do not speak the language(either) and I am concerned how they would attend school and what the effect would be on college. May have to turn down.

rbphilip

Indeed. Mountains, great weather, interesting people. Did I mention mountains?

rbphilip

I believe there are international schools, taught in English, in both places.

Krysia

As far as college, would likely be looked upon favorably. Although your daughters are sure to complain and say you are ruining their lives ( because every 13 and 16 year old girl would) I believe that the benefits far outweigh any negatives. It gives them a broader life experience and I believe makes us all far more open to differences. I believe you have a great opportunity...my vote ...even though I don't get one...is go for it!

STBCypriot

I am a US citizen and I have lived in Russia (Moscow and Siberia), Bulgaria, and Slovakia all for my work. But I have chosen to expatriate to Cyprus. I love it here, especially in the winter when the tourist population declines significantly. Yes, it is affordable - that was one of the considerations in choosing to move here; although the economic crisis has created some unforeseen additional costs (VAT increases, gasoline tax increase, property tax increase, etc.). It is very safe here. But it is not for everyone. The population of the entire country is less than a million people so you need to be comfortable living in small towns or villages for the most part. I am on the path to become a naturalized Cypriot citizen and have no intention of ever returning to the US.

docmoney

Wow. I started this thread and checked up on it a few times - no responses. Then this!

Truly, a watched pot never boils.

So... The reason I posted this... here goes.

I am a doc. Having been thoroughly disgusted with the practice of medicine, in the US generally and in my hospital particularly, I quit. I could get another job, but my inner self begins to kick and scream every time a thought of working as a doc again enters my mind.

My savings do generate some income, but nowhere near the Singapore estimate as one of the above posters described. I may live in Florida for a while, but I usually get restless in any one place.

Yes, safety, fun and affordability are key concerns, but I am also entrepreneurial and would love to do something in that direction, wherever it is I land. Was thinking Costa Rica, Vietnam, Panama... Any thoughts, now that more detail is available?

Oh, and I am in my late thirties, single with no kids; healthy but having modern medicine available would be a plus.

Thank y'all for sharing

DM

Amelorn

Hmm. Your medical degree (if you don't mind experimenting with other systems) could take you other places. The whole world is not the US. Doctors without borders comes to mind. Or open a small practice in (insert bucolic country here).


I've been an international student in UK (undergrad) and Australia (post-grad). I am a native of NYC.

UK:
~Fun was a given. I had friends, spare time, and spare cash. I got to travel around Europe as well. I was never a club person, but loved the pub culture.
~Affordability varied. St Andrews was considered expensive. The equivalent of $5 US for a pint in a bar did not trouble my mind. I found restaurants to be rather expensive for the quality offered.
~Food again was variable. I found the raw ingredients on offer to be satisfactory, but preparation style lacking, with the exception of Indian food (excellent).
~Scots are a down-to-earth, genuine, and friendly people. Visiting family and friends were impressed by friendly, helpful staff in bars, restaurants, shops, and hotels. Their service culture (a reflection of their attitude, IMO) is to be commended. I think that their suffered over-much from Friday night drunkards (a problem throughout Europe).

Cons:
~Poor wage/cost-of-living ratio
~Weak civil liberties culture
~Simmering social unrest (perceived)

Australia
~Fun again. Similar circumstances. I miss the pub culture of the UK, but other activities emerged. Year-round cycling in Brisbane is great.
~Expensive by any metric, even with an inheritance (might as well be honest). I do tutoring work @ $50 AUD per hour after taxes, which helps. Minimum wage workers tend to live somewhat more comfortably here than the US.
~Food is of a remarkably high standard, with particular gems in Asian cuisine and steakhouses. Italian here is generally dreadful, and I am sceptical of the quality of Mexican this far away from Mexico.
~Relatively easy travel to SE Asia, New Zealand
~Decent people with a wit.
~Socialising is great once you get in with "the lads" (learning to drink in the UK proved most useful in this respect).
~Failed US chains survive and thrive in Oz: K-Mart, Sizzler, and Blockbuster come to mind. It's charmingly and quaintly anachronistic.
Cons:
~News & political culture is remarkably similar to the US (factionalised, histrionic, vapid, home-centric....Tokyo could be nuked, but it would take a backseat to rugby news)
~Freakin' expensive without a professional job or a pot of acquired money (retirement, inheritance, lottery)
~Horrific amounts of racism. Homophobia is a hit-or-miss.
~F class seats to Oz dwindle with each passing year, it seems.

There has been a price to this, but it's been worth it.

invisible

In your situation you have pretty much whole world at your disposal. But here are some specifics:

- your profession/degree/field guarantees you to have a job assuming that you can practice in other country. Also remember, that US situation is unique - in no other place people in medical field make as much money. In most second and third world countries doctor alongside with teacher is one of poorest paid profession.

- If you can switch from practicing to research and transfer in another country working in a research facility it probably will be win/win situation - you can use your skills and experience and do what you know, not starting from the scratch.

- if you do not want to continue working in your field at all, well, situation becomes much more difficult. Imagine, that you are in a new country, w/o skills, language and understanding how things work. It is ok to live there for couple of month but in most cases you will need to have income just to get permission to live in the country - this is applicable for majority (if not all) first world countries.

- finally: be flexible. Reset your expectations to zero and there will be no disappointment.

P.S. Last point is applicable in general to any expats.

docmoney

Good info, thanks folks!

TomVexille

That may be true about Italian in Brisbane, but Melbourne happens to have some amazing Italian food. I do completely agree on the Mexican food though. Except for one restaurant in down here that actually does great Mexican.

BuildingMyBento

If you're from NYC, how do you feel about Mexican food over there? Generally no great shakes, no?

I'm not sure what distance has to do with inferior quality food. Besides, Melbourne is rather detached from most of the world (or perhaps it's the other way 'round?), yet they've got some nice Greek restaurants to check out, for example.