Why Transpac flights have the same schedule?
Jan 7, 2013 | 10:53 pm
#1
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Why Transpac flights have the same schedule?
When flying across the Pacific (and, I assume, the Atlantic), it appears that many of the flights operate within a few minutes' time of each other.
For example, from LAX to NRT, the UA and NH flights leave within minutes of each other as do other flights. The BR and CI flights to TPE also leave within minutes of each other.
I realize that departure/arrival times are timed for best advantage, but is there any other benefit to scheduling flights this closely to each other?
For example, from LAX to NRT, the UA and NH flights leave within minutes of each other as do other flights. The BR and CI flights to TPE also leave within minutes of each other.
I realize that departure/arrival times are timed for best advantage, but is there any other benefit to scheduling flights this closely to each other?
Jan 7, 2013 | 11:27 pm
#2
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Yes, in that case, it allows a hub and spoke arrangement at NRT (in both eastbound and westbound directions). All flights to other Asian destinations out of NRT are scheduled to arrive just before the arrivals from the USA, and then they depart just after those arrivals.
It does mean that anyone travelling from another Asian destination to the USA has a 3-4 hour layover at NRT, but it also allows all connections to work even if incoming flights are a bit late.
It does mean that anyone travelling from another Asian destination to the USA has a 3-4 hour layover at NRT, but it also allows all connections to work even if incoming flights are a bit late.
Jan 8, 2013 | 3:43 am
#4
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Why Transpac flights have the same schedule?
I'll also toss out that in the case of SYD transpac schedules, airport curfews mean planes can only land after 6am I believe, which means a lot of directs from LAX depart within the same hour every night.
Jan 8, 2013 | 9:21 am
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One big factor is that the flights have to depart the US west coast late enough for pax to make connections from other US cities. Departures before 11am or so would eliminate many possible connections. The same logic applies to departures from pretty much any hub (look at JFK, IAD, etc.; most flights to NRT & ICN leave around noon).
Later departures would make connecting in NRT, etc. difficult.
If earlier landings were permitted at NRT (I believe 6am is the earliest allowed landing), then airlines could do midnight departures from the US. A few flights to ICN leave around midnight and arrive around 5am.
Later departures would make connecting in NRT, etc. difficult.
If earlier landings were permitted at NRT (I believe 6am is the earliest allowed landing), then airlines could do midnight departures from the US. A few flights to ICN leave around midnight and arrive around 5am.
Jan 8, 2013 | 9:29 am
#6
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Not true for HND
Note that US-HND flights do not follow the pattern. There are midnight US departures arriving into HND at 5am or so, as well as ~6pm US departures that arrive around midnight.
Why the difference? I can think of two reasons: lack of curfew and the higher rate of O/D traffic (non-connecting passengers).
Note that you can include both NRT and HND in a search by using TYO (NYC for JFK, LGA, & EWR; WAS for IAD, DCA, & BWI; LON; SEL; etc.)
Why the difference? I can think of two reasons: lack of curfew and the higher rate of O/D traffic (non-connecting passengers).
Note that you can include both NRT and HND in a search by using TYO (NYC for JFK, LGA, & EWR; WAS for IAD, DCA, & BWI; LON; SEL; etc.)
Jan 8, 2013 | 9:34 am
#7
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you also asked about tatl. lhr has a morning curfew. when there is a favorable wind blowing, i have hit that curfew and circled for over 30 min. i think cdg has an am curfew also. i presume others do also.
so, then the plane is turned around, and sent back to usa for use next day.
so, then the plane is turned around, and sent back to usa for use next day.
Jan 8, 2013 | 9:58 am
#8
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you also asked about tatl. lhr has a morning curfew. when there is a favorable wind blowing, i have hit that curfew and circled for over 30 min. i think cdg has an am curfew also. i presume others do also.
so, then the plane is turned around, and sent back to usa for use next day.
so, then the plane is turned around, and sent back to usa for use next day.
Jan 8, 2013 | 9:58 am
#9
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TATL seems to fit nicely for turning the plane around and sending it back. That is, 7-8 hours in the air each way makes it possible for the plane to do a round trip each day. Overnight east, daytime west, rinse, repeat.
I've always wondered how they optimize utilization on a 14-hour flight. We got to talking about this on our SFO-HKG flight. Where does that 747 go after we deplane in HKG? I'm sure I could figure it out by poring through UA's schedules, but as a general topic, what's the practice for maximizing utilization of TPAC aircraft?
I've always wondered how they optimize utilization on a 14-hour flight. We got to talking about this on our SFO-HKG flight. Where does that 747 go after we deplane in HKG? I'm sure I could figure it out by poring through UA's schedules, but as a general topic, what's the practice for maximizing utilization of TPAC aircraft?
Jan 8, 2013 | 10:29 am
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OTOH flights like IAH-LHR and ORD-FRA r/t are almost perfect. A r/t is just under 24 hours (18-20 hours flight time), with enough padding for turns and delays. You can see UA use the same 777 on IAH-LHR-IAH for days on end.
Jan 8, 2013 | 10:36 am
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In terms of HKG onward to SIN/BKK. The flights continue but the aircraft no longer do, with UA using a smaller a/c for that last portion of the flight - a change that the FFs did not like for obvious reasons.
Jan 8, 2013 | 11:59 am
#13
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Do the west coast - NRT flights cycle perfectly for r/t's?
leaving LAX around 11am-12pm and arriving around 4-5pm. Isn't that the time they return to LAX, and so forth? Or is there not enough buffer built in?
leaving LAX around 11am-12pm and arriving around 4-5pm. Isn't that the time they return to LAX, and so forth? Or is there not enough buffer built in?
Jan 8, 2013 | 12:27 pm
#14
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One big factor is that the flights have to depart the US west coast late enough for pax to make connections from other US cities. Departures before 11am or so would eliminate many possible connections. The same logic applies to departures from pretty much any hub (look at JFK, IAD, etc.; most flights to NRT & ICN leave around noon).
Later departures would make connecting in NRT, etc. difficult.
If earlier landings were permitted at NRT (I believe 6am is the earliest allowed landing), then airlines could do midnight departures from the US. A few flights to ICN leave around midnight and arrive around 5am.
Later departures would make connecting in NRT, etc. difficult.
If earlier landings were permitted at NRT (I believe 6am is the earliest allowed landing), then airlines could do midnight departures from the US. A few flights to ICN leave around midnight and arrive around 5am.
Jan 8, 2013 | 12:30 pm
#15
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TATL seems to fit nicely for turning the plane around and sending it back. That is, 7-8 hours in the air each way makes it possible for the plane to do a round trip each day. Overnight east, daytime west, rinse, repeat.
I've always wondered how they optimize utilization on a 14-hour flight. We got to talking about this on our SFO-HKG flight. Where does that 747 go after we deplane in HKG? I'm sure I could figure it out by poring through UA's schedules, but as a general topic, what's the practice for maximizing utilization of TPAC aircraft?
I've always wondered how they optimize utilization on a 14-hour flight. We got to talking about this on our SFO-HKG flight. Where does that 747 go after we deplane in HKG? I'm sure I could figure it out by poring through UA's schedules, but as a general topic, what's the practice for maximizing utilization of TPAC aircraft?