Yaatri

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In spite of deregulation, airlines continued to be burdened with anti-free market regulations, such as subsidies for unprofitable routes in the name of essential services. Govt introduced TSA, that airlnes and passengers have endured for over a decade is another unpriductive burden. All this, in addition to higher fuel prices, bad economy and consumers' reluctance to fare increases has forced airlines to look for innobatibe ways of raising revenue. If the Govt can nickle nad dime by imposing various "user fees" on air travellers, wjy can't an airline?
I am not against consumer protection, various fees that go the govt should be abolished. Taxes are increasingly larger portuon of the cost of flying. Euro carbon tax is another foolishness, which I originally thought, was not a bad idea. I have changed my mind.

KurtVH

Sorry, but nothing you cited supports your statement that "flying has gotten a LOT more expensive."

Even the cite you provided in your original post in this thread said that airfares have gone down since deregulation (though that piece lowballed the price decrease).

I think airlines will lower their prices (and raise them) when the market so dictates. They will also continue to seek additional revenue where they can. Just like every other business including the one I work for.

KurtVH

All true. Despite "deregulation", airlines are still heavily regulated and additionally burdened by a cornucopia of fees and taxes.

cordelli

You go to the government website

www.bts.gov
In the menu selections on the left, click on Baggage fees
A page comes up with baggage fees for each airline with tabs from 2007 to 2012.

I'm not really sure how it could be much simpler than one mouse click, but I would guess that's how consultants make their money, because for some people taking a column of numbers and adding them together for each year is way over their head.

You don't even have to enter them in a worksheet, you can download them in excel and do the calculations there, and after 2010 they included all the previous years data, so you bring down one worksheet with every number in it.

So yes, it's pretty much that simple, anybody with a basic understanding of adding numbers together in excel could do it in ten minutes. There's no digging, but if you feel it's worth millions for them to add up the six years worth of numbers anybody can download in three clicks on a free public website, so be it.

Personally, I don't.

slawecki

if airline are charging such huge fares, the should be making huge profits, which means airlines should be a great investment. you think the fares are so high, and the profits so great, buy airline stock. wait till they come out of bankruptcy, and buy buy buy.

Often1

The fact remains that doling our freebies for UG's, the F brand is diluted and the product begins to circle the drain.

I can see an OPUP when it allows a carrier to sell a full Y seat. But, handing out the premium product just means that it's harder to sell it.

Let it go empty for a while and then price it resaonably for sale and the lemmings will come.

Schmurrr

Regarding whether or not flying has gotten more expensive...

In my experience, ticket prices have gone up, planes are generally more crowded, and my FF miles have decreased in value over the past 10 years. That's just my personal view of the situation, though.

cbn42

How is a subsidy a burden? Essential air service is completely voluntary - an airline can submit whatever bid it wants, if any. Subsidies for unprofitable routes will enhance an airline's profitability.

Every industry is regulated for safety issues. Car manufacturers have to install mandated safety equipment, food manufacturers have to follow certain preparation guidelines, and so on.

So are you saying that taxpayers who don't fly should have to pay these costs?

slawecki

i think the airlines loose a lot of money doing other things than baggage, and over all are not such great moneymakers. if you think airlines are a golden opportunity, invest in their stock, and get rich. the stocks of most airlines are dirt cheap right now.

other than baggage, i don't think airlines make money on anything other than selling FF points to banks and the like.

wonder how much it costs airlines to move all those bags. probably about 22 billion.

Yaatri

Subsidies is NOT an example of a free market. In the end, it's a burden on travellers who are taxpayers also.
Yes, but those regulations are not enforced by an agency such as TSA.
Safety and TSA? That TSA does anything to promote safety, if you implied that, is your opinion, which we are not going to discuss here. . TSA is a burden.
No. I am saying the Govt should not transfer costs of its function to air travellers. There are no border fees for those travelling by road, for example.
There have been incremental increase of "user fees". Some fees should be borne by the govt as it is its function. The Govt cannot charge a fee for doing something its obligated to perform. Customs, inspection, agricultural inspection, are some examples.
If the federal Govt did not subsidise some routes, it wouldn't have to levy additional taxes for performing is normal functions.

Dadaluma83

I don't mind fees. For personal travel at least domestically I can pack everything I need in a backpack that will fit under the seat in front of me so I am not effected by bag fees.

I wait until my plans are final before I book airfare so I don't pay change fees.

When traveling for work those fees are just a reimbursable travel expense.

If I am flying in Y I don't mind buy on board or paying for IFE, if I feel compelled to eat on an airplane or use the IFE I will pay for it. Otherwise I don't mind eating in the airport or bringing my own IFE.


No matter how you slice it airlines are a competitive business just by looking at the profit margins. Airlines operate on razor thin profit margins if they even turn a profit at all. You can hardly call a corporation "greedy" if they are barely keeping their head above water. If they are making an excess profit they will lower fares in some markets to undercut competitors. It is quite a competitive industry, it is monopolistic in a sense that the airlines we have now are basically our only choices, there are very huge barriers for a brand new startup airline to overcome.

If airlines continue to find ancillary revenue, they are not as compelled to raise the base fare. Personally I love having other people subsidize my fare. ^

Yaatri

Whose fact? Yours or everyone else's
Why did airlines decide to give "upgrades" as freebies?
F is priced quite reasonably these days, discounted F yet the freebies are still here, although they are harder to come by on some routes.

KurtVH

i don't understand Domestic airlines have been "doling out" upgrades for decades. When did the product start circling the drain and what's taking it so long to go down?

Canarsie

The amount is actually an estimated $36.1 billion this year, according to this article from NBC News.

travelinmanS

I can't wait for all the US based airlines to impliment a carry on fee and hopefully one that applies regardless of "status". The amount of stuff people try to bring on flights in the USA is outrageous and inevitably leads to departure delays while the last few passengers try to cram the kitchen sink into the already overstuffed bins. This doesn't happen in Europe or Asia.