EuropeanPete

US companies benefit from Chapter 11 in a way which those overseas aren't able to benefit from. The likes of SwissAir and AlItalia would be a lot better off if they were able to restructure under comparable terms (ignoring for a moment the debate about whether that's good or bad).

cheltzel

Lurch, do you have enough miles to go via Europe (I believe an extra 10K miles per ticket)?

If you do, you may be able to get either TG or OZ F. Hopefully UA F to LHR, FRA, MUC, etc and then one of the Asian F products from there.

floridastorm

I agree with you 100%. There is, however, one important aspect of the US airline industry that has to be fairly addressed when we are talking about competition. Most, but not all, of the American carriers are heavily unionized. A major part of their budget goes to exorbitant pay and benefits. Most foreign carriers do not have this problem, with the exception of a very few carriers in Europe, Australia, and Canada. Under these circumstances it is extremely difficult to compete in a global market. This is the reason there are no electronics manufacturers left in the US. They can't even begin to compete with a labor force that requires only "two hots and a cot" as we used to say in the military. Southwest, Jet Blue, and Air Tran, are three domestic carriers that actually make a profit, have decent aircraft, and provide good service. I believe that they are all non-union and compete only in the US domestic market.

Jorgen

Nope, they're free, in the sense of "buy N, get one free". You paid for your tickets, you got your flights, now you're getting an extra *free* flight on top of that. Pretty freaking sweet deal, if you ask me!

Also, if you're anything like me then you collected those 160,000 miles you'll need for the return first-class trip to SYD by flying eighty thousand actual miles in discount economy which winds up costing about $8000 or so... which is still a factor of two less than the cash price for your free first class trip.

Science Goy

Incorrect. Southwest is unionized, as is AirTran (and presumably its employees will continue to be unionized as it merges with Southwest).

gwar69

Also it lists the cheapest to get SQ F at $10,500. I saw a RT from JFK-FRA in SQ A380 suites this month for $6,000.

vtmaa

I've recently flown Delta Business Elite on 77L (Herringbone config) and 747 (old NWA world business class). The hard product is dated and not well maintained. Seats are generally ok, not the most comfortable. Amenities that Delta provides in Business class is comparable to Jet Airways, Eithad and Emirates ecomomy offerings.

Food in Business class is very good, well presented and generous. One will not go hungry.

What I notice most is the people, this i've noticed in many US carriers. There is brashness to their communication style. They can be friendly but do not come across as polite. They are not curteous and don't have the flair of Asian carriers (not the Middleeast one's) and take customers for granted. Sometimes, they are downright rude. FA's are constantly chatting with each other during boarding and during the flight, they chew gum (very unprofessional).

I've also experienced genuinely friendly and caring FA's in US airlines (US airways of all people), but it is only a few time this happened.

It would serve DL well, if they bring in a few newer FA's on the flight along with the senior staff so they can gain experience as well as bring some enthusiasm to the service.

If i were OP, I would take my miles/$$ to a non-US airline and really enjoy the flight.

gfunkdave

But I seem to remember hearing that Southwest employees are in a Southwest-employees-only union. So there's, say, the regular flight attendants' union, and a Southwest flight attendants' union.

glennaa11

Of course a big reason why the legacies all file for Ch 11 is so they can renegotiate or eliminate their union contracts. Ask a flight attendant or pilot for one of the big US carrier how much of a pay cut they had to agree to and how much their benefits were slashed.

Also, Singapore Airlines, for example is majority owned by the Singapore government via their Temasek holding company. Thai Airways is owned by the Thai gov't. I'm willing to bet quite few of the other Asian airlines are government owned.

Do the big Euro carriers really not have employee unions?

Mistered

Sorry, but the "union" excuse doesn't cut it. Virtually the entire world's labor is unionized in some form or fashion. They don't preclude hard work or great service.

Over here, bad management helps create fertile soil for them to organize employees to get even. And when you observe your UPS courier run from truck to doorstep and back day after day, keep in mind they all are Teamsters. There are no tougher unions than them, and yet...

chubbuni13

Even though this is kind of a "squishy" point, I truly believe that Americans have a very ingrained sense of egalitarianism. In the US, we tend to think that people are on roughly equal footing, whatever their background and/or profession. Although not usually outwardly stated, it's pretty widely believed in many other countries that richer people are just better. Both the servers and the served seem to buy into this mentality.

For example: working overseas in Asia, I was really surprised to see just how haughty and rude many people (especially high-income customers) were to those in the service industry. Asking a few of the employees if they ever got frustrated with this type of treatment, they would invariably respond with puzzlement. "They're paying customers, so they can pretty much say what they want" claimed one cashier after I saw her getting loudly berated by a middle aged lady for not making her latte quickly enough.

I can only imagine what would happen had this scenario taken place in the US...

acunningham

I really don't think you can lump the rest of the world together when it comes to customer service. For example, Japan is a very socially egalitarian place (except perhaps in the workplace), where customer service is outstanding no matter who the customer is. Customer service in Australia can be a bit hit-or-miss, but it doesn't really depend on who the customer is - it's more about the level of training of the staff. I could go on...

marbles dad

in my last 2 or 3 decades of international flying in both j and f , there are a handful of memorable flights i truly remember as outstanding.
of course, sq in F was beyond even what i was expecting. BA F- ranged from unpleasant to just ok. AA the same, except for one F with outstanding service.
UA- one outstanding international F with a crew i will always fondly remember.
the hard and the soft products vary- and over the years they certainly have- but it is the fA's who make or break the premium experience. too often, they are cranky or pre-occupied, or absent , but when you have cheerful and competent ones, they can make your day.
I cant speak for the vagaries and potential drudgery of their jobs,but i speak from the paying passengers standpoint.
oh, and in memoriam, i have had outstanding flights in F many many years ago on pan am and twa in F transatlantic. no sleeper seats then ,but the carved prime rib at your seat was always a treat. as was the lounge on the upper deck of the 747. but whatever the hard product was, it was always the flight attendants who made the service.
if the us airlines could separately train their F and j flight attendants, with a separate roster, dedicated to premium service at a premium pay scale, they could be up there with the asian carriers. i dont understand why they dont do this, with all those premium dollars at stake.

dnviessk

Dear all,

I am an FTL at the moment but I found myself with a lot of restrictions (I thought I was entitled to do more with my status).. and unfortunatly, all this rights are allocated to SEN members.

Any idea how to get the SEN in an easy way ? As I live in London, I thought that the quickest way will be taking an european flight to Eastern Europe / Central Europe worth around �420 each (10000 miles) but to get the status, I will need to fly 10 times (�4200 for a single status).

Any cheaper idea, as in this case I can join a very trendy private members club here in london !!!

Thanks a lot for your help

ralfp

The Fly America Act can be circumvented by purchasing a code share (one of the few real "benefits" of a code share). There are also exceptions for airlines from countries with which the US has open skies agreements (according to Wikipedia). Note that I am not defending the Fly America Act.

I don't see the relevance of the second argument, as very few countries allow cabotage (the Wikipedia article has some examples).

The air travel market is distorted pretty much everyplace that it exists. While the US does engage in some protectionist policies that may "help" US carriers, it also shoots itself in the foot in many ways. The ban on (or failure to permit) transit w/o visa makes the US a terrible place to connect and certainly puts US carriers in at significant disadvantage when selling international tickets. If I were living outside of the US as a non-US citizen (or even as a US citizen), I would do my best to avoid a connection in the US.