B747-437B

There is a procedure for exceptions and the procedure is that myself and the Chairman must approve any exceptions. To this point we have only ever approved one exception and that was for a contractor who we needed to have arrive at midnight after 23 hours of travel and hit the ground at 7am the next morning. We'd probably do the same if any of our own staff had to do a similar trip, but it hasn't come up yet except for me personally and I am quite happy to do that kind of trip in Economy.

pragakhan

I would look at changing this policy, ours I believe is 6+ hrs you get business OR the option of a $$$ bonus for taking Y. I would never take the $$$ option, but I imagine some would.

timfountain

If there's one thing that will reinforce an "us and them" feeling, this is it. It's not the 1800's any more and it is exactly this kind of class warfare between management and the workers is at the root of many industrial relations problems....

deirdre

This strikes me as reasonable. 17 hours in Y on red-eyes does not.

BigMoneyGrip

Also, what would HR think about the "standard of lifestyle" of someone who is 6'4" and has a California King size bed, drives a large sedan, and purchases clothes at a big and tall shop? Would that person be "unduly benefiting" by spending 17 hours in a business class seat? Or would purchasing a seat that matches his body be in line with his standard of lifestyle?

B747-437B

We have a 6'4" manager in the company who somewhat fits the above profile. He's happy to fly in Y class provided he can get his exit row extra legroom seat. I've done the same trip with him in Y class last March (I gave him the exit row aisle and took the middle seat myself).

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback. I think the wide disparity of views is actually a bit comforting - at least I know I won't be the only boss upsetting part of the workforce!

SeattleFlyerGuy

I think that this is pretty clear. Your policy states Y only. Until that policy changes, Y only is the policy. If you book C/F, you're going to lose credibility with your employees and there will always be a question whether you abused your position. While the input from your chairman is important, your average employee will see two things: The policy that they thought was absolute and you ignoring the policy. They will not care about this debate or the intervention of the chairman.

I think the appropriate thing to do here would be to fly Y. If you feel that you need to fly C to keep up appearances with the chairman, then the appropriate thing to do is get into C using your own resources (upgrades or paying the difference out of pocket between Y and C). That way it looks like you took their advice, but you still conform to policy (The best of both worlds). After you get back, you can start the process of revising the policy to be less black and white, but when you do you will have full authority and legitimacy to do it.

Kagehitokiri

Loren Pechtel

I was having thoughts along those lines, also.

nd2010

I had even worse. I had my company pay for a Greyhound bus ride back home once from Tampa to NYC. But that was because a snowstorm on the east coast messed up the flights for days. It was after the December 19, 2009 snowstorm. Since it was around the holidays, flights were booked to capacity, and I couldn't get a flight until December 23 (and there was a forecast of another snowstorm around Christmas eve, so there was the possibility I would be stuck in Florida for Christmas). Amtrak was also sold out and would take longer than Greyhound. I did not want to drive back by myself, even if I stopped somewhere for the night, so I didn't rent a car. The Greyhound bus only took me 1 day and I got home late on the 20th, with a car service picking me up at the Newark Greyhound station (yeah, it was pretty ironic getting into a hired car after stepping off a Greyhound bus). I ended up keeping the credit for my return flight and used it towards a personal trip. That saved the company more money than having them put me up in a hotel for 3 days.

So there you have it, a long haul business trip on a Greyhound bus, by my choice, even though I had the option of an unscheduled 3 day vacation in Tampa paid for by my company.

pinworm

Look, if the chairman wants you to do it, do it. And if it is perceived as unequitable, damn their impudence. They are not equal. This is not a democracy, this is a corporation. Egalitarianism does not apply.

kipper

If you were willing to do it, glad it worked out that it saved the company money, and you were able to benefit from the ticket.

B747-437B

The more I think about this, the less of an issue I see exists.

a) We are a startup. Rules are not written in stone but rather a work in progress. This is a learning experience for us to streamline travel processes as needed. I've got more important things to worry about than the semantics of the travel policy.

b) Management by democracy doesn't work. The final decision always rests with the person with whom the buck stops. Input and feedback is always welcome.

c) If the people who "should" have a problem with the issue credibly claim that they don't, then there is no issue.

d) We will continue to spend wisely on travel, not simply because its our policy, but because it is the sensible thing to do. Sometimes "wisely" may mean spending more, but usually it means spending less.

e) Precedent is irrelevant. This is not a court of law. Justify things on the basis of what needs to be done and why, rather than what was done or ignored in the past.

Just some managerial thoughts after a redeye flight (in Economy).

deirdre

Personally, I'm a fan of the "anything over X hours" (where X is ~6 hours or a red-eye at least 5 hours where one's expected to hit the ground running) should be in business class even in a startup. I've flown a lot for clients over the years, but never spent longer than 6 hours in coach.

I get the point about costs and startups and all that -- I've worked a greater percentage of my 36 years in the tech industry in startups than most -- but there's only so far you can burn people before they go other places.

B747-437B

We are pondering putting in a "anything more than 2 consecutive redeyes or 24 hrs of continuous travel will have at least one redeye in Business Class" policy. 6 hours IMHO is ridiculously low. A vast majority of our travel is straightforward 17 hour trips. Those can easily be handled in Economy Class.