jlemon

I foresee a connoisseur rum tasting featuring top shelf products from Jamaica, Martinique and Guyana when you get down here in January....

And the keys to the M4 will be strategically unavailable that evening.

jrl767

1- as already noted, correct on all counts
5- LAX is CORRECT, IPL is CORRECT, Cochise is INCORRECT, SWM is CORRECT
6- Imperial is CORRECT, Cessna is CORRECT

jrl767

jlemon

But isn't that actually the lead agent at the front desk in the United Club at SEA??

jlemon

I'll go ahead and provide the answer now. joejones was definitely on the right track when he guessed United. Here's the sched....

UA 954: Las Vegas (LAS) 1:50p - 3:15p San Francisco (SFO) 5:20p - 11:30a (+1) London Heathrow (LHR)
Freq: Thursday and Sundays only
Equip: B737-300 (733) LAS-SFO, B747SP (74L) SFO-LHR

It's also interesting to note just how prevalent these "direct" flights with equipment changes were at this time as listed in the OAG.

Only two air carriers were operating nonstop service from San Francisco (SFO) to London (LHR) back then and they were the usual suspects: British Airways with a daily B747-200 flight and United also operating daily B747-200 service plus the aforementioned B747SP twice weekly flight (and BTW, I believe this B747SP was inherited from Pan Am as a result of UA acquiring PA's Pacific Division for a mere $750 million back in 1985). Please note there was no nonstop service from San Francisco to London Gatwick at this time.

The October 1993 OAG also lists these "direct" one stop flights with equipment changes from San Francisco to London...

From SFO to LHR:

AA 46: SFO - ORD DC-10, ORD - LHR MD-11
UA 932: SFO - SEA B737-500, SEA - LHR B747SP

From SFO to LGW:

CO 4448: SFO - EWR A300, EWR - LGW 747
US 2488: SFO - CLT B737-300, CLT - LGW B767-200
AA 2736: SFO - DFW B757-200, DFW - LGW MD-11
DL 6188: SFO - CVG B757-200, CVG - LGW L-1011-500
TW 704: SFO - STL MD-80, STL - LGW 747
CO 4234: SFO - DEN MD-80, DEN - LGW DC-10-30

And that does it for yours truly at the present time. I am planning on a taking a break from the OTAQ&D for awhile, at least as far as posing new quiz items is concerned.

Cheers Everyone and Thanks for participating!

joejones

The total mileage doesn't quite match up but I'm going to go with the following (already confirmed portions highlighted in green):

(1) PSA SMF-SFO 727-200
(2) Swift Aire SFO-SJC Short Skyvan
(3) Apollo SJC-SBA Jetstream
(4) Golden West SBA-LAX Short 330
(5) Sun Aire LAX-IPL Metroliner
(6) Imperial IPL-PHX Cessna 402/404

joejones

Man, that was a stumper unless you had just the right timetable on hand. Some of those change of gauge flights stuck around -- UA was still doing something similar with its ORD-NRT flights as recently as right before the CO merger (881/882 continuing past ORD to BOS and 883/884 to PHL, in each case on narrowbodies).

jlemon

Ah, please allow me to weigh in here: I lived in the San Luis Obispo (SBP) area for many years and had a number of friends who worked at SBP-based Swift Aire including a couple of very good folks in senior management who actually ran the air carrier. Swift Aire never operated the Short Skyvan. They did operate the Nord 262 turboprop as well as the de Havilland Heron piston powered aircraft. And in a very big move, they then purchased brand new Fokker F.27 aircraft. I flew on all three of their airplane types back in the day when I lived on the beautiful Central Coast of California.

WHBM

Not only the change of gauge flights (what a euphemism for pretending that a connection wasn't one), but also the array of aircraft that came into London Heathrow from American and United after their route purchases in 1991; United bought the Pan Am routes, and American the TWA ones.

The 747SPs were really a bit lost at United, especially once the 747-400 came along, but they had got them as part of the Pan Am Pacific routes purchase a few years earlier, so they were available. But American also had a couple of 747SPs as well, ex-TWA, and they used that on their shortest route of all from London Heathrow, to Boston. United had also gone and bought half a dozen 747-200s from Qantas, who were rolling their fleet over to the latest model, and these did dominate their Heathrow routes for a few years. American meantime used one of just about everything they had, such as DC-10-30s, their first MD-11s (which later became a major type for them at London), 767s, all sorts.

You didn't need a 747SP to get to San Francisco, a 747-200 was fine getting there. However, from the widebody start both Pan Am and TWA had put their original 747-100s onto London-SFO/LAX. That was on the limits. British Airways always felt it was a step too far for the aircraft, and didn't do the routes until the mid-1970s when they started the well-known daily hire of an Air New Zealand DC-10-30 to do LAX-London. Notable how the DC-10 had longer range performance than the 747 in their fleet.

The summer midday departures of the two US carriers' 747s to California were viewed with more than a little concern by ATC at Heathrow, right up to MTOW and at the hottest time (don't laugh) of the day, especially when easterly rather than westerly departures, which do tend to coincide with warm weather, had them heading out across London, in the event of an engine failure. The ATC shift leader generally came over to watch them go from the windows, and more than once had their finger poised over the crash alarm. The Pan Am departures were known to the team as the "Hedge Clipper", and easterlies off runway 28R were "departing via the Piccadilly Line". At least the 747SP would be exempt from these concerns.

It very nearly happened, though, in 1988, at Gatwick, in the short period when Continental were running the London-Miami route, engine failure just on liftoff (which earlier P&W powered 747s were known for), right up on MTOW with apparently a heavy belly cargo load as well, and the aircraft did brush trees on a low hilltop about 10 miles after takeoff

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightP...20-%200330.PDF

joejones

Don't forget A300s! Those showed up on transatlantic around 1999-2000 IIRC, when American was flying a bunch of its MD-11s to Japan (including the short-lived DFW-KIX route)...

I'm always amazed when I look at the AA 747SP seat map and see how premium heavy it was. 29/78/78 with two stand-up bars!

WHBM

Ah yes, they mainly held down the LHR-JFK route for American for some years. Taken from the Caribbean fleet, they were refitted with international 3-class cabins.

It was a right mix of American types at Heathrow Terminal 3 in those days. I recall seeing about 4 of them in line once, no two the same type. Both LAX and MIA for years were a 763, nothing bigger.

Seat 2A

jrl767

very close here

Swift Aire is INCORRECT
SJC is CORRECT
SH3 is INCORRECT

Apollo is CORRECT
SBA is CORRECT
J31 is CORRECT

GW is CORRECT
LAX is CORRECT
SH3 is CORRECT (and this is why the earlier SH3 guess is incorrect)

Sun Aire is CORRECT

jlemon

I recall Bob Crandall announcing this, saying something to the effect that the A300-600R was absolutely the correct aircraft for transatlantic services, ending his comments (which appeared in the American Way inflight magazine at the time) with "I hope you agree." Well, of course we agree, Chairman Crandall......

And speaking of transatlantic service, we thoroughly enjoyed our flight yesterday on AF 688 from CDG to ATL in business class. The trip was part of my first experience ever with Air France which began earlier in the day at BOD on board an A318 in the front compartment.....and let's just say that BA's Club Europe is demonstrably superior to what AF offers up front on their domestic flights. BTW, this was also my first journey on board an A318 which appears to have power to spare judging by the takeoff.

Also, some interesting plane spotting at Bordeaux Merignac Airport including an A350 in Airbus company livery parked near a large hangar, a Mercure in Air Inter colors (!!) and a rather forlorn looking Caravelle (!!). The last two were parked in a remote area on the airfield and I could not make out the name on the Caravelle as we were departing.

We arrived into Paris without any weather related issues being experienced (low ceiling and rain at CDG) and adjourned to a rather tired AF business class lounge in Terminal 2E (at least they had a serviceable Margaux along with a nice soup). Then it was time to head across the pond. We took a more northerly route than I expected and passed just east of London. Of course, we waved to several friends in the London area as we passed by. Then it was up across Scotland and I got to view something I had never seen from the air: The island of St. Kilda which I believe is the westernmost of the Outer Hebrides. As you might well imagine, huge waves were pounding the coast of this dramatic looking island. Must be an interesting place to live! Later on, we crossed over southern Greenland and sky conditions permitted an excellent look at the jagged coastal mountains as well as the massive ice sheet. And on we went, arriving into ATL on time where we connected to a Delta B717-200 for a final flight of the day and home.

I was impressed with business class on board the Air France B777-200ER which featured sleeper seats in a 1-2-1 configuration with no first class cabin. The cabin service, food and wine were all excellent along with a very comfortable sleeper seat featuring more personal space than other business class cabins we've recently experienced (AA B777-300ER "Flagship" biz class and DL A330-300 "Delta One"). About the only thing that I can think of that would have been nicer on the AF 777 would have been fresh air nozzles which were absent on our aircraft. Well done, Air France! I would definitely consider flying with AF again in business class across the Atlantic. ^

Seat 2A

Welcome back, JL! Good to hear Air France did a nice job of looking after you and Kate. Gotta love those new 1-2-1 configured Business Classes we're starting to see more of. Curious - how was Delta One overall? From the pictures at least, those seats don't look too comfortable. Last week I flew Biz between Narita and Kuala Lumpur aboard JAL's 787-9, also configured 1-2-1. It was one of the worst seats I've ever sat in, not to mention the claustrophobia inducing molded sidewalls which are right up on you on either side! The Premium Economy seats felt much better. (That's right - I went back and sampled one). Thankfully my lot's improved considerably of late as you can see from the embedded picture. I'm in Dubai for dinner tonight, on to Houston and Seattle tomorrow and then on to a Deluxe Bedroom aboard Amtrak's Empire Builder across to Milwaukee. I am really looking forward to all that extra space upstairs! I'll be back home on the 20th and will post a few new questions shortly thereafter. Unless anyone out there cares to beat me to it - please do!