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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Jun 21, 12, 5:32 pm
  #1186  
 
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This is perhaps a weak example of the "milk run," but in 1992 I flew on a Air Tanzania 737 Dar es Salaam-Kilimanjaro-Entebbe-Bujumbura, I suspect it then continued on back to Dar es Salaam.
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Old Jun 21, 12, 5:35 pm
  #1187  
 
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Sorry, duplicate
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Old Jun 22, 12, 10:12 am
  #1188  
 
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Originally Posted by tonywestsider View Post
Seat 2A,

You never cease to amaze me, this time posting that ultra cool TWA ad from 1967. I assume, besides flying Boeing 707 "Star Stream Jets", TWA was also operating a fleet of 727s, Convair 880s and DC-9s, yes? I can only imagine what US domestic travel would have been like if TWA really did take delivery and operate SSTs like the ad envisioned. Well, that was the world of Trans World Airlines, back in the day!
BTW, had a U.S. SST been produced, I believe the model number would have been the Boeing 2707......
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Old Jun 22, 12, 10:44 am
  #1189  
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In the propellor era, there were lots of impressive milk runs, many of them serving airports not capable of accepting jets. What about domestic U.S. milkruns in the jet age? Here are a couple that come to mind:

NW 109: EWR-PHL-CLE-ORD-MSP-JMS-BIS-BIL-HLN-MSO-GEG-PDX-SEA Flown with 727-200

NA 492: MSY-MOB-PNS-PFN-TLH-JAX-ORF-DCA-BAL-JFK Flown with 727-200

RW 706: BUR-LAS-SLC-TWF-BOI-LWS-PSC-YKM-SEA Flown with DC-9-10

TI 905: MSY-BTR-LFT-IAH-DFW-MAF-ABQ-LAX Flown with DC-9-10
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Old Jun 22, 12, 11:35 am
  #1190  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
This style of operation didn't really develop elsewhere, because in fairly shorter distance you got into another country, and another administration.
Channel Airways briefly operated a multi-stop flight in the UK (1967). Portsmouth - Southend - Luton - East Midlands - Leeds/Bradford - Tees-side - Newcastle - Edinburgh - Aberdeen using ex-Continental Viscounts which they didn't even bother to repaint.
There were few takers, not surprisingly.

Last edited by Wally Bird; Jun 23, 12 at 6:58 am
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Old Jun 22, 12, 1:07 pm
  #1191  
 
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Originally Posted by miniliq View Post
And now for something completely different.

It's probably hard for today's passengers to imagine flights with more than one or two stops, but we all know that in the pre-jet era there were a lot of milk runs that were real endurance tests for passengers and crew alike. So here's three questions for you:

1. What US passenger airline had a direct flight from Chicago to Caracas with five intermediate stops? What type of aircraft was originally used on this route, and what were the stops?

2. What US passenger airline had a direct flight from Memphis to Washington with twelve intermediate stops? What type of aircraft was used on this route, and what were the stops?

3. And perhaps the milk run champion: What US passenger airline had a direct flight from Spokane to Idaho Falls (a distance of only 388 miles) with fourteen intermediate stops? What type of aircraft was used on this route, and what were the stops?

If you have any other milk run nominees, please chip in!
Well, I don't have specific route information for 2. and 3. above, but I'll guess that question number two was Delta with 1) jet: DC-9, or 2) prop: Convair 440.

And as for question number three, I'll guess this was Air West and the list of cities served included every airfield in northern California, Oregon, Washington state and Idaho that could take a DC-9.......
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Old Jun 23, 12, 12:38 am
  #1192  
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Originally Posted by miniliq View Post
2. What US passenger airline had a direct flight from Memphis to Washington with twelve intermediate stops? What type of aircraft was used on this route, and what were the stops?

I was thinking Southern, but with no timeline ah'mo'n guess it was a Martin 404. No idea on the cities along the way...

3. And perhaps the milk run champion: What US passenger airline had a direct flight from Spokane to Idaho Falls (a distance of only 388 miles) with fourteen intermediate stops? What type of aircraft was used on this route, and what were the stops?

Again, strictly a guess but I'll go with West Coast Airlines on a DC-3, probably stopping at a bunch of cities between GEG and SEA, a bunch more down to PDX and a few more over to IDA.

If you have any other milk run nominees, please chip in!
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Old Jun 23, 12, 7:37 am
  #1193  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Originally Posted by miniliq
2. What US passenger airline had a direct flight from Memphis to Washington with twelve intermediate stops? What type of aircraft was used on this route, and what were the stops?

I was thinking Southern, but with no timeline ah'mo'n guess it was a Martin 404. No idea on the cities along the way...
Sounds more Piedmont territory to me. Let's go for when they used YS-11s in the region - because that's one of the few aircraft types we haven't covered so far.
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Old Jun 23, 12, 8:01 am
  #1194  
 
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Originally Posted by miniliq View Post
3. And perhaps the milk run champion: What US passenger airline had a direct flight from Spokane to Idaho Falls (a distance of only 388 miles) with fourteen intermediate stops? What type of aircraft was used on this route, and what were the stops?

If you have any other milk run nominees, please chip in!
Frontier Flight 526 Convair 580 (late 1960s)
Little Rock, Hot Springs, Fort Smith, Tulsa, Oklahoma City ,Liberal, Colorado Springs, Denver, Cheyenne, Casper, Billings, Bozeman, Missoula, Great Falls, Billings (again).
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Old Jun 23, 12, 10:29 am
  #1195  
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Sounds more Piedmont territory to me. Let's go for when they used YS-11s in the region - because that's one of the few aircraft types we haven't covered so far.
I considered PI also but I couldn't remember if they flew into MEM or not while SO hubbed out of there. Whichever airline it is, I look forward to seeing the routing!
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Old Jun 23, 12, 10:41 am
  #1196  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
In the propellor era, there were lots of impressive milk runs, many of them serving airports not capable of accepting jets. What about domestic U.S. milkruns in the jet age? Here are a couple that come to mind:

NW 109: EWR-PHL-CLE-ORD-MSP-JMS-BIS-BIL-HLN-MSO-GEG-PDX-SEA Flown with 727-200

NA 492: MSY-MOB-PNS-PFN-TLH-JAX-ORF-DCA-BAL-JFK Flown with 727-200

RW 706: BUR-LAS-SLC-TWF-BOI-LWS-PSC-YKM-SEA Flown with DC-9-10

TI 905: MSY-BTR-LFT-IAH-DFW-MAF-ABQ-LAX Flown with DC-9-10
Here are some more "milk run" examples from the mid 70's......

AA 173: ROC-LGA-DCA-MEM-DFW-SFO-OAK flown with a B727-100

AL 889: DCA-PVD-BDL-PHL-BNA-MEM flown with a DC-9-30

BN 119: JFK-BNA-MEM-LIT-FSM-TUL-OKC-DFW flown with a B727-200

DL 534: BOS-PHL-ATL-BHM-MEM-PAH-EVV-IND-ORD flown with a DC-9-30

EA 538: MIA-MCO-ATL-RDU-DCA-EWR-BOS flown with a B727-200

NC 574: YWG-DLH-IWD-RHI-CWA-MSN-MKE-ORD-AZO flown with a CV-580

OZ 971: LGA-IAD-CMI-PIA-SPI-MCI flown with a DC-9-30

PI 41:
ORF-RIC-GSO-CLT-BNA-MEM flown with a B737-200

PS 517: SAN-LAX-FAT-SCK-SFO flown with a B727-200

SO 174: CLT-GSP-ATL-MOB-GPT-MSY-MEM-STL flown with a DC-9-10

TW 315: LGA-ORD-ICT-AMA-ABQ-LAX flown with a B727-200 (and previously flown with a CV-880 originating at PHL)

WA 412: PSP-ONT-SLC-CPR-RAP-PIR-FSD-MSP flown with a B737-200

Also at this time in the OAG, if a flight made more than nine stops en route, the symbol "#" was used in the schedule information instead of the actual number of stops.....

Last edited by jlemon; Jun 23, 12 at 10:54 am Reason: TW CV-880 routing correction
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Old Jun 23, 12, 1:15 pm
  #1197  
 
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And here's a few more "milk run" examples from the mid 70's......

AL 540: IND-DAY-CLE-PIT-IPT-ITH-UCA-JFK flown with a BAC One-Eleven

CO 226: LAX-TUS-ELP-MAF-AUS-IAH-MIA flown with a B727-200

CP 74: SFO-YVR-YEG-YWG-YYZ-YOW-YUL flown with a B737-200

CZ 545: SEA-PUW-ALW-PSC-PDX flown with a Beechcraft 99

DL 517: BOS-BDL-EWR-ATL-MGM-MSY-JAN-MEM-ORD flown with a DC-9-30

FL 544: MEM-LIT-HOT-FSM-FYV-JLN-MCI-OMA-OLU-GRI-HSI-EAR-MCK-DEN (12 stops from MEM to DEN) flown with a CV-580

PI 959: BAL-IAD-SHD-HSP-ROA-LWB-BKW-HTS-CVG flown with a YS-11

RW 4: GDL-PVR-PHX-SJC-SFO-SMF-EUG-PDX-SEA flown with a DC-9-30

UA 357: DCA-CLE-TOL-ORD-MLI-CID flown with a B727-200

UA 829: SFO-SCK-MCE-VIS-LAX flown with a B737-200

Breezy, beautiful afternoon here in south Looziana!

Hmmmm.....what's that thing trying to form out in the Gulf?!

Stay tuned for possible hurricane party details! Or evacuation plans!
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Old Jun 23, 12, 5:56 pm
  #1198  
 
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Originally Posted by miniliq View Post

1. What US passenger airline had a direct flight from Chicago to Caracas with five intermediate stops? What type of aircraft was originally used on this route, and what were the stops?

2. What US passenger airline had a direct flight from Memphis to Washington with twelve intermediate stops? What type of aircraft was used on this route, and what were the stops?

3. And perhaps the milk run champion: What US passenger airline had a direct flight from Spokane to Idaho Falls (a distance of only 388 miles) with fourteen intermediate stops? What type of aircraft was used on this route, and what were the stops?
OK, here are the answers I was looking for -- all from 1950:
1) cs57 correctly identified the route, which was originally flown by Chicago & Southern Air Lines using DC-4s, which were replaced with Electras in 1953 after the merger with Delta.
2) Sorry, no winner here -- it was Capital Airlines, DC-3 service Memphis, Huntsville, Chattanooga, Knoxville, Asheville, Charlotte, Winston-Salem, Greensboro, Raleigh Durham, Rocky Mount, Elizabeth City, Norfolk, Newport News, Washington.
3) No winner here either -- It was Empire Air Lines, DC-3 service Spokane, Coeur d'Aleme, Pullman-Moscow, Lewiston-Clarkson, Walla Walla, Pasco-Kennewick, Pendleton, La Grande, Baker, Ontario, Boise, Gooding, Twin Falls, Burley, Pocatello, Idaho Falls. Interestingly, the scheduled arrival and departure times for most of these stops differed by only 3 minutes. Overall flight time 7 hrs, 39 min. I'm amazed there was enough traffic to make this route profitable. You could probably drive it more quickly, even if there were less roads in those days.

Thanks to WHBM for pointing out the impressive Imperial Airways world-wide milk run (I also recall a CPAir flight in the 70s I think, which I believe was HKG-YVR-YYC-MEX-PTY-LIM-SCL-EZE, and was supposed to be some sort of direct flight distance record in its day).

And thanks to jlemon and Seat 2A for the lists of jet-era milk runs.

I suppose the final question (to which I don't have the answer) would be to find the current direct flight with the most stops and no equipment change.

And to jlemon -- - I left my wife in MSY while I'm on a trip for a week -- I hope that weather doesn't develop into anything of concern!
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Old Jun 24, 12, 12:52 am
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Early Sunday morning in London, all quiet outside (apart from the periodic inbounds to Heathrow descending overhead; our nearby London City airport is closed on Sunday mornings), cool, pouring with rain again, so no prospect of gardening, where the weeds spring ever upwards. It has been like this for days, significant floods elsewhere. Just the sort of morning to get out the old air timetable collection before Mrs WHBM rises !

Originally Posted by miniliq View Post
I'm amazed there was enough traffic to make this route profitable.
And there weren't the passengers. Much of the revenue in those days came from mail, and the driver fo these hip-hop multi-stop routes was the same. There was some package express as well. If you read books about flying in those days (stand by for a good recommendation later) there were often just a couple of passengers aboard.

(I also recall a CPAir flight in the 70s I think, which I believe was HKG-YVR-YYC-MEX-PTY-LIM-SCL-EZE, and was supposed to be some sort of direct flight distance record in its day).
Canadian Pacific long used to have this route shown in one timetable, along with Amsterdam-Vancouver-Sydney the same, the two routes crossing in Vancouver. It looked impressive but it was just a convenient way to save paper - everyone was put off at an all-day stop in Vancouver, and whether the same aircraft took up the next flight was a chance. BOAC long used to have in their timetables a page for Asia to USA, which was just connections in London.

I did say I would recommend a book from my collection, about old milk-runs, and as most of you here are from the USA, what could be better than stories from Frontier Airlines (the old one) of Denver, from the days when most of the service was on DC3s, and in fact going back to some of Frontier's predecessors like Monarch. It's not history like dates of route openings and closings, just a series of stories (some amusing, others stirring) by old retired pilots of the time. I do like the one about the Stew and the "snakes", if any of you already have it.

"The Golden Years of Flying", by Tex Searle.

http://www.amazon.com/Tex-Searle/e/B001JRXP1E
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Old Jun 24, 12, 10:12 am
  #1200  
 
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And to jlemon -- - I left my wife in MSY while I'm on a trip for a week -- I hope that weather doesn't develop into anything of concern!

Here's an excerpt from the latest update issued just over an hour ago.....

National Weather Service in Lake Charles, Louisiana: TROPICAL STORM DEBBY UPDATE - Sunday, 10:00am CDT, June 24, 2012

"The National Hurricane Center (NHC) has adjusted Tropical Storm Debby's forecast significantly this morning with a landfall (now projected) in southeast Louisiana."

Roger Erickson
Warning Coordination Meteorologist
National Weather Service
Lake Charles, LA

This forecast track would put the storm onshore in the Houma-Morgan City-Lafayette, LA area. But the update also says the storm's projected track may be adjusted by NHC to the east later today. If it does shift east, New Orleans might then be affected.

Good news here is that NHC does not think Debby will strengthen to a hurricane before making landfall.

However, we are watching her real close here in LFT......
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