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-   -   Bulkhead passengers decide to help themselves to underseat storage. (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1279907-bulkhead-passengers-decide-help-themselves-underseat-storage.html)

emma69 Nov 16, 2011 5:16 pm


Originally Posted by fiddlestickies (Post 17464003)
Sorry, that was a little presumptuous of me to say "belonged." But in the case I'm describing, the person had just put one large bag and one small bag into the overhead, which is against the policies of most airlines. I politely asked them to put the small bag under the seat so my violin could fit horizontally. They happily agreed. I also believe the stuff you described, combined, could easily fit under the seat. Not a violin. In every other case, I don't think my bag has any more rights than anyone elses, but if it's between my violin and a bag that is full of toiletries and some books, then yes I will take the 6-figure instrument that can be destroyed with one hard collision over the books, and %99 are accomodating in this situation!. A very crappy violin costs around $1000. I'm extremely lucky to have a very nice violin, so you can see why I get anxious when there is no space:D

That's certainly clearer when they had two. Some folks would still have more than one overhead mind you, if they had a coat and purse as well.

It sounds like you have never had someone next to you drop a drink all over your laptop bag under the seat in front! I have, which is why I no longer put my bags there. On my next trip I expect to have a family photo album with me - it will be in the cabin, and whilst it will be wrapped in a plastic bag, it will also be in the overhead just in case the guy next to me drops his red wine. Your violin, presumably insured, is expensive. The family album has no cash value, but is very valuable in other ways. Each person values things differently, doesn't make any one person more right than another.

Ancien Maestro Nov 16, 2011 6:47 pm


Originally Posted by emma69 (Post 17463258)
I don't disagree in you wanting your violin on board with you. I do disagree that 'their' bag belonged under the seat in front and not in the overhead - their bag has every bit as much right as the violin (but of course, people are nice and will sometimes help out). And a violin is 'stuff' (it isn't a person or an animal) - it has value to you, and maybe commerical value, but so do lots of things people travel with (a jewellery case, a family photo album, a laptop, etc.)

Agreed.. as much as the instrument is of value (and I'm a musician, hence my name.. a pianist.. and my wife is a pianist and violinist), everyone on board has a right to OH space as much as OP does..

so boarding first, or arranging special transportation for the violin will ensure safe travels.:)

WildPlumYonder Nov 16, 2011 7:28 pm


Originally Posted by BryanIAH (Post 17463681)
I thought I was the only person who does this!

You are not alone, my brother....

cynicAAl Nov 17, 2011 7:45 am

The only time a bulkhead pax in front of me put his backpack in my legroom space, I waited a few minutes then took the backpack to an overhead bin in the back of the plane. And I didn't tell him where I put it. I did get lots of smiles of approval from people in my row.

rochel Nov 17, 2011 8:00 am


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 17450636)
"Nope."

(and into the aisle it goes if the offender does not remove it.)


Yes, this.

snuggliestbear Nov 17, 2011 3:51 pm


Originally Posted by fiddlestickies (Post 17464003)
Sorry, that was a little presumptuous of me to say "belonged." But in the case I'm describing, the person had just put one large bag and one small bag into the overhead, which is against the policies of most airlines. I politely asked them to put the small bag under the seat so my violin could fit horizontally. They happily agreed. I also believe the stuff you described, combined, could easily fit under the seat. Not a violin. In every other case, I don't think my bag has any more rights than anyone elses, but if it's between my violin and a bag that is full of toiletries and some books, then yes I will take the 6-figure instrument that can be destroyed with one hard collision over the books, and %99 are accomodating in this situation!. A very crappy violin costs around $1000. I'm extremely lucky to have a very nice violin, so you can see why I get anxious when there is no space:D

Why not just get a more secure case with more padding? I'm sure you could find something with a rigid body (I'm thinking aluminum or steel) and lots of nice foam padding would be plenty of protection for an instrument. It probably wouldn't be super cheap, but if the violin is as valuable as you say it is, it would probably be worth the cost.

fjord Nov 17, 2011 4:30 pm

If there is anything in my foot area I ask whose is it and hand it to them. No need to excuse or apologize yourself. You haven't done anything to anyone.

Ancien Maestro Nov 17, 2011 6:19 pm


Originally Posted by snuggliestbear (Post 17470671)
Why not just get a more secure case with more padding? I'm sure you could find something with a rigid body (I'm thinking aluminum or steel) and lots of nice foam padding would be plenty of protection for an instrument. It probably wouldn't be super cheap, but if the violin is as valuable as you say it is, it would probably be worth the cost.

Agreed.. if the cargo is as valuable as it is, then the carrying case should have extra padding or foam absorption..

I would do as OP did.. ensure that the instrument is extra careful.. but must make sure all passenger belongings are respected.. I would try to do an early boarding and get good appropriate OH space if possible..

obscure2k Nov 17, 2011 6:34 pm


Originally Posted by fiddlestickies (Post 17456840)
Well intentioned but bad idea. As a musician with a violin that takes up much less space than the gigantic suitcases that are crammed in to the overheads, I can tell you that without overheads my career is over. My violin is way too fragile(and honestly, expensive) to be thrown around by baggage agents(see United Breaks Guitars on youtube for evidence) and insurance certainly won't cover it. I can relate the horror stories from my friends who have been forced to check their instruments and then find the instrument utterly destroyed.

I once traveled with M. Rostropovich on the Concorde. One seat for him and one seat for his cello. Although the Concorde was thrilling, seeing M. Rostropovich with his cello made it that much more so. I can understand wanting to protect your violin and am not suggesting you buy an extra seat. Just thought I would share a kind-of-nice memory.

fiddlestickies Nov 17, 2011 10:05 pm


Originally Posted by Ancien Maestro (Post 17471417)
Agreed.. if the cargo is as valuable as it is, then the carrying case should have extra padding or foam absorption..

I would do as OP did.. ensure that the instrument is extra careful.. but must make sure all passenger belongings are respected.. I would try to do an early boarding and get good appropriate OH space if possible..

It's a good thought, and definitely a good idea, to have a great case, and I'm lucky to have a very protective one. Unfortunately they are not immune to every collision. To give you an example, one day I was carrying my case on my back as I always do and one of the straps broke somehow. The case went directly backwards and hit the pavement relatively hard. I shakily opened the case when I got inside, and every string had broken, and the soundpost was slightly damaged. It wasn't a big deal, as the cost to replace everything and have the soundpost moved was around $250 but it just goes to show you that these things are REALLY fragile. Also most insurance does not cover putting an instrument in a cargo hold.

I think I've been a little bit prone to exaggeration here, but basically my point is this: Every violinist(or musician that has an instrument that is not big enough to have to buy a seat for, but is big enough to cause some anxiety of getting on the plane) should try their hardest to board early, and if there is a problem, they should be as polite as possible in finding another solution. There almost always is one. It's just in extreme cases, if you see a red-faced person on the verge of tears who is carrying their instrument, cut them some slack :D

Ancien Maestro Nov 17, 2011 10:55 pm


Originally Posted by fiddlestickies (Post 17472432)
It's a good thought, and definitely a good idea, to have a great case, and I'm lucky to have a very protective one. Unfortunately they are not immune to every collision. To give you an example, one day I was carrying my case on my back as I always do and one of the straps broke somehow. The case went directly backwards and hit the pavement relatively hard. I shakily opened the case when I got inside, and every string had broken, and the soundpost was slightly damaged. It wasn't a big deal, as the cost to replace everything and have the soundpost moved was around $250 but it just goes to show you that these things are REALLY fragile. Also most insurance does not cover putting an instrument in a cargo hold.

I think I've been a little bit prone to exaggeration here, but basically my point is this: Every violinist(or musician that has an instrument that is not big enough to have to buy a seat for, but is big enough to cause some anxiety of getting on the plane) should try their hardest to board early, and if there is a problem, they should be as polite as possible in finding another solution. There almost always is one. It's just in extreme cases, if you see a red-faced person on the verge of tears who is carrying their instrument, cut them some slack :D

Yes.. the problem exists with most musicians..

I've transported my trombone in my highschool years.. and the stuff gets banged around on a bus and on the plane..

I shuddered when I purchased a vintage Hamburg Steinway B and had it restored.. a process that took 2 years.. and had it shipped via a truck from Burnaby BC to Calgary.. I had contracted the best movers in BC, specially deliver just my piano.. with a humidity controlled cabin.. and it had to be on a day where the weather was not below 0 celcius and humid.. Loaded up the insurance, and the whole 9 yards.. Plus I installed a double damp chaser to ensure proper humidity for the piano, so it wouldn't crack in the dry Calgary weather..

God forbid, if I had to board a plane with stradavarius.:eek::cool:

Loren Pechtel Nov 18, 2011 7:32 pm


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 17453818)
My post deals only with the unlawful bags which violate the published rule and don't fit the sizer. Everybody still gets their lawful carry-on + lawful personal item. The unlawful ones get checked to baggage office and paid for on arrival w. penalty.

Problem is that unlawful bags can still be crammed sideways into the OH, but they take 2-3 x space of a lawful carry-on. Got zero sympathy for those folks.

The problem is also people who don't use the underseat space they have.

Fornebufox Nov 23, 2011 10:19 am


Originally Posted by Ancien Maestro (Post 17472619)
Yes.. the problem exists with most musicians..

I've transported my trombone in my highschool years.. and the stuff gets banged around on a bus and on the plane..

I shuddered when I purchased a vintage Hamburg Steinway B and had it restored.. a process that took 2 years.. and had it shipped via a truck from Burnaby BC to Calgary.. I had contracted the best movers in BC, specially deliver just my piano.. with a humidity controlled cabin.. and it had to be on a day where the weather was not below 0 celcius and humid.. Loaded up the insurance, and the whole 9 yards.. Plus I installed a double damp chaser to ensure proper humidity for the piano, so it wouldn't crack in the dry Calgary weather..

God forbid, if I had to board a plane with stradavarius.:eek::cool:

Flying with instruments is one of the more vexed topics on a music board I frequent. There are many postings on how to carry a violin unobtrusively (backpack cases are recommended). I did have a friend who flew with her fiddle in her lap on a short intra-Europe flight--"you'd cradle a baby in your arms, right? This is my 'baby'."

But I imagine that most musicians playing old Stradivarii get to fly up front, where carryon regs are often a bit more relaxed.

A singer never has this problem. ;)

Emma1420 Nov 23, 2011 11:44 am


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 17478175)
The problem is also people who don't use the underseat space they have.

But why should anyone be forced to use the underseat storage if they have only brought one carryon. Just because a smaller carryon can fit under the seat doesn't mean that it should be forced under the seat because someone else has a 22 inch rollaboard and a supersized personal item.

Obviously, I don't think that people who have two items should be putting them in the overhead bin, but if you only have one item and it's within the carryon regulations, then I don't think you should be forced to put it under the seat just because it happens to fit.

BigMoneyGrip Nov 23, 2011 12:33 pm


Originally Posted by Emma1420 (Post 17504690)
But why should anyone be forced to use the underseat storage if they have only brought one carryon. Just because a smaller carryon can fit under the seat doesn't mean that it should be forced under the seat because someone else has a 22 inch rollaboard and a supersized personal item.

Obviously, I don't think that people who have two items should be putting them in the overhead bin, but if you only have one item and it's within the carryon regulations, then I don't think you should be forced to put it under the seat just because it happens to fit.

Agreed, FIRST item up top, SECOND (if you have one) under the seat.


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