Obviously.

The post I was responding to was about the US.

I would say a large majority of anti-tipping people have never worked in the service industry. I base my opinion on observations of people that are strictly anti-tipping versus those that wish the system were different but understand WHY the system exists.

I hope in the "non-tipping" culture you're also factoring in higher restaurant prices. The fact is that a non-tipping culture has higher restaurant prices with the expectations that no tipping is necessary while the US and other parts of the world have lower restaurant prices and customers are asked to make up the difference in employee pay.

If at the end of the day the prices are relatively the same and the service is roughly the same why do people get so hostile towards tipping cultures? The fact is that in Europe if your service sucks you're still paying towards the employee's pay(excluding comps because those can also apply to the US) whereas in the US you can directly penalize the server for crappy service.

At the end of the day the only way I'd truly support a non-tipping system would be if they could eliminate bad servers... unfortunately that would create inflated prices because the good servers would be able to right their own compensation requests.

In the UK, restaurant menus show the actual cost of the meal including all taxes, and where there is an included service charge, quite a regular thing for parties of 6 or more, the percentage (usually 12.5%) is clearly indicated. Even where there is an inclusive service charge, this can be questioned by the customer, and can be reduced for bad service/ disappointing meal, or increased at the customer's discretion.

What is irrtating is when an establishment has added their inclusive service charge - they then leave the option to add a tip open or blank in the hope that the customer will add more.

Quite a few establishments close the slip so a tip CAN'T be added if you want to pay by card, so presumably the waiters can take a cash tip left on the table.

Yes the prices are higher than they are in a comparable establishment in the US, but those low prices don't include the state taxes or the almost mandatory tip.

What I found disappointing in one hotel we stayed in last summer was that our waiter actually looked disappointed with the $100(20%) tip he received at the end of our meal. If all his tables were as generous, he would have earned well over $1000 in tips at the end of the evening, on top of his minimum wage. Multiply that by 5 days a week and he would be on $5000 minimum a week or based on a 48 working week year - nearly $250,000 a year! Believe me - that is a pretty good wage to be on for anyone - never mind a waiter.

+1

Unfortunately in the US that is not always the case. In several states, Florida for example, some professions are almost or a 100% tip based with no salary.

Very unfair, but it is the way it is. Think about that.

What jobs are 100% tip based?

I'm off to Washington after Christmas and was doing my research and came across this about tipping and salaries. I makes you think a lot more about whether to tip or not. :eek:


Washington, D.C. allows a tip credit that brings minimum wage for tipped employees who qualify down to $2.77
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_mi...#ixzz22wnramHL

In the US, good servers earn significantly more money under the tipping system than they would if the restaurant charged and paid more with little or no tipping. The good servers like it the way it is because their doing a good job results in them earning more money. Those who don't do a good job earn much less which makes the job much less attractive to them and (hopefully) encourages them to move on.

In non-tipping countries my experience is that it is a lot harder to get drink refills, etc. because the server isn't checking back on the table as frequently. (But that seemed to annoy someone earlier in the thread so I guess you can't win)

I really don't agree with the concept of tipping for the sake of it (why should I subsidise someone's wages rather than the employer?!) but in the end I do it because its the norm. I tried doing in the Middle East and in Asia once and was given a very harsh look, as though I had insulted them! I prefer their system.

This seriously made me laugh. Pretty good strategy right there! I do what most people do and take care of my own stuff, to be honest I don't need people to do things like carry my bags and stuff. Maybe when I'm older but right now I'm young and strong. Unfortunately still have to have pay someone $1 to open a beer and hand it to me... That one always gets to me. Mixing a drink is one thing but handing me a beer...Oh well social contracts I guess.

I'm not quite sure I see the distinction.

I'm anti-tipping _because_ I know why the system exists and I disagree with it.

Of course. That's the point. I'd *much* rather have slightly higher prices on the menu (or whatever) and know that a) staff were being paid a decent wage and consequently b) not have be concerned about supplementing it as a matter of course, or c) not be embarassed/avoid insulting someone by not tipping when it was expected.

I think that's already been covered pretty well.

Except - by your own standard - the service has to be atrociously bad before you give no tip at all, which is realistically no different (since service that bad in non-tipping locations will likely result in complaints to the manager and is incredibly rare regardless).

Bad servers get weeded out in non-tipping cultures just like bad employees of any sort do.

Once again, I'll make the point: if your justification for tipping is to incentivise good service and punish bad service, why aren't you tipping (/not tipping) your doctor ?

I'm sure jobs 100% tip based are relatively uncommon.

But ones that are 80-90% tip based aren't, and that's the same thing for all practical purposes.

In the US, a dozen or so states allow a wage of $2.13 per hour. They must receive tips up to the minimum wage, or the employer must make up the difference.

About 20 states give about $5 an hour or more.

Even the $2.13 states are not 80-90% tipped to minimum wage. Only about 70%. Most servers make $10-20 an hour, so it's a smoke screen. A good server likes the system like it is. They make much more than if they were just paid $8-10 an hour.

Indeed. And I *definitely* don't want to pay for a service I didn't explicitly request, particularly one that means I can't just shut the hotel room door and relax, but must instead wait for my bags to be brought up a few minutes later.

Porters shouldn't require tips. If they aren't part of the service, they should charge a fixed and clearly displayed fee for their service, as they do in railway stations in Germany, and should wait to be approached by someone requesting the service, not hassle people about it. If their service is poor, a complaint can be registered and dealt with as in any company where tipping is not practiced.

Neil

And how much of that do you think he reports to the Internal Revenue Service?;)