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Old Jan 5, 2008 | 7:08 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by AnalogMan
.... I also don't think you need the super high resolution screen option on the T61p because things will be tiny. ....
They are tiny by default; easily changed for both Vista and apps running under Vista. Less easily changed in other environments (but also possible for the most part). This used to be a big issue but I really think it is solved and shouldn't be a consideration in selecting the screen resolultion these days.
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Old Jan 5, 2008 | 11:40 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by number_6
That is the important point; Lenovo has effectively merged the 2 products so that they can be configured identically; it is the model number (3 digit) that counts, and not the T61 vs. T61p distinction. The chassis always was identical, but in the past the p series had big hardware differences; these are gone now. Both excellent choices....
Recently, the TPs we ordered all came in with CTO as model number. So you can't tell the configuration from the last three digits anymore.

Originally Posted by number_6
...

The screen resolution (and quality) is an important consideration. Each of the available screen choices has a difference and if you are picky then it matters a lot. My personal favourite is the original 1400x1050 display, which is gorgeous, but some people cannot stand it. Now I would only buy the 1200x1600 (or 1920 in widescreen)because I really need the screen real estate. For mobile use, the 15.4 inch is a lot bulkier than the 14.1 -- amazing the difference an inch makes.
...
During the T4x generation, only one colleague selected a 15 inch and he regretted it all the time.

We recently polled users who are ready to upgrade. They also refused the 15.4 inch versions due to size and weight and opt for 14.1 inch screens. Of course they all have LCD monitors on their desk.

Originally Posted by number_6
....
As for the battery life comments on this thread, they are true for XP but less true for Vista. One of the big improvements in Vista is power management (much of it due to the new driver model), so some of the high power graphics mobile chipsets will run in low-power mode for "desktop" use. Doubles the battery life. Turning off Aero increases it even more. My new Vista notebook really surprised me with the increased battery life, it wasn't something I expected.
The battery life related to RAM issue that I mentioned is in hardware. There is very little Vista can do to improve it. This is the SDRAM memory array cell refresh mechanism at work inside each RAM when they are on and during standby, more RAM draws more power. Thinkpads had long used extensive battery life improvement methods in the absence of power management in Windows. On driver level is called ACPI. On software level is call Power Manager. This is legacy from the IBM Yamato design group near Tokyo.

The nVidia Quadro FX 570M inside the T61p for sure will draw more power when it is on even if you compare the p and non-p models with the same WSXGA+ LCD.

If you use the machine on A/C most of the time, it will be a non-issue. I use my A31p on A/C almost all of the time.

These are the reasons I feel 4GB in a p version will be more power hungry. Vista probably will improve battery life some but I doubt it will be noticeable. Our IT policy is to install new OS a year after they come out, so we are ready to install Vista on our machines bought a year ago.

Last edited by SJUAMMF; Jan 5, 2008 at 11:51 am
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Old Jan 5, 2008 | 11:49 am
  #18  
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Originally Posted by SJUAMMF
The battery life related to RAM issue that I mentioned is in hardware. There is very little Vista can do to improve it. This is the SDRAM memory array cell refresh mechanism at work inside each RAM when they are on and during standby, more RAM draws more power. ...
Intel added the capability for newer chipsets (starting with 945GM, I think) to control this and some drivers implement a lower power memory refresh. Quite significant (I know some Vista drivers have it, and Linux is working on it but don't think it is released yet, don't think Mac has it yet). If you are interested in this significant new technology, see the intel site and look for things like Memory Row Power Management (DRPM) and Conditional Memory Self-Refresh (CMSR).
Otherwise your comments are 100% correct for the older chipsets and memory controllers; but no current T series Thinkpad uses that technology any more -- and does benefit from longer battery life even with 4GB memory. The hardware came circa 2006, the software a year later (and few people realize it, apparently).
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Old Jan 5, 2008 | 12:55 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by number_6
Intel added the capability for newer chipsets (starting with 945GM, I think) to control this and some drivers implement a lower power memory refresh. Quite significant (I know some Vista drivers have it, and Linux is working on it but don't think it is released yet, don't think Mac has it yet). If you are interested in this significant new technology, see the intel site and look for things like Memory Row Power Management (DRPM) and Conditional Memory Self-Refresh (CMSR).
Otherwise your comments are 100% correct for the older chipsets and memory controllers; but no current T series Thinkpad uses that technology any more -- and does benefit from longer battery life even with 4GB memory. The hardware came circa 2006, the software a year later (and few people realize it, apparently).
Yes, these came from the low power DRAM designs originally used in cellphones now making it into PC memory. Starting point is the JEDEC (Joint Electron Device Engineering Council) JC42 committees for memory standards.

http://www.jedec.org/memory_program/program.htm

I suspect my T60 still don't have it. Frankly I expected more battery life from my machine. Although I have the big battery, I really hate to carry it on a trip. The X60s' some colleagues have are great on battery life but they have a tiny screen. For our work, we typically only use 1GB of RAM and I've only recently gone to 2GB.

RAM usage bit growth had not been increasing as rapidly as in the past. So the RAM pricing is in the dump this fall. Now you can buy 1GB for about $20. Order the single SODIMM option in any case to leave one empty slot for adding RAM in the future.

Last edited by SJUAMMF; Jan 5, 2008 at 1:07 pm
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Old Jan 5, 2008 | 12:58 pm
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Fortunately, I will be using the laptop on AC power most of the time, and will travel with it very seldom.
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Old Jan 5, 2008 | 4:37 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by number_6
The screen resolution (and quality) is an important consideration. Each of the available screen choices has a difference and if you are picky then it matters a lot. My personal favourite is the original 1400x1050 display, which is gorgeous, but some people cannot stand it. Now I would only buy the 1200x1600 (or 1920 in widescreen)because I really need the screen real estate. For mobile use, the 15.4 inch is a lot bulkier than the 14.1 -- amazing the difference an inch makes.
I agree absolutely. I travel with a work Dell D610 (14.1" 1400x1050, non widescreen) and my Thinkpad T61 (15.4" 1600x1200); and previously have had a 14.1" 1400x1050 T42 and T43, and a 15" 1400x1050 R40.

I'm regretting buying the widescreen T61, although they do not offer 4:3 T61s in Australia any more (or at least not when I bought it): the bulk is just annoying and excessive. I don't get much additional value out of the width. I find 1400x1050 a small struggle on 14.1" screens, so for me my R40 was perfect.

Originally Posted by number_6
As for the battery life comments on this thread, they are true for XP but less true for Vista. One of the big improvements in Vista is power management (much of it due to the new driver model), so some of the high power graphics mobile chipsets will run in low-power mode for "desktop" use. Doubles the battery life. Turning off Aero increases it even more. My new Vista notebook really surprised me with the increased battery life, it wasn't something I expected.
I haven't noticed a difference in battery life on my T61 when I had 1GB, 2GB, 3GB, or 4GB installed (it now has 3GB as I am running 32-bit Vista). Battery life in suspend might be slightly shorter, but that's what hibernate is for.
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Old Jan 5, 2008 | 4:39 pm
  #22  
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Originally Posted by SJUAMMF
Recently, the TPs we ordered all came in with CTO as model number. So you can't tell the configuration from the last three digits anymore.
There should still be a product model which looks like NNNN-XXX. My R40 was 2722-GDM. All IBM/Lenovo products should carry this, and it is really specific right down to the config the product left the factory with.

All T60s/T61s/T61ps I've used in the last year have still carried their respective model numbers on them.
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Old Jan 5, 2008 | 8:08 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by number_6
They are tiny by default; easily changed for both Vista and apps running under Vista. Less easily changed in other environments (but also possible for the most part). This used to be a big issue but I really think it is solved and shouldn't be a consideration in selecting the screen resolultion these days.
LCD screens have an optimal resolution. Displaying a lower resolution will result in some ugliness (for lack of a better word to describe it) on the screen. Things can look pixelated/blurry/stretched. So it's recommended to use a LCD display at that optimal resolution. That's why I think it matters how big things are at the maximum (the optimal) resolution of the screen; they can up sized by changing the resolution downwards but there is a visual penalty associated with it.
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Old Jan 5, 2008 | 8:28 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by ajnz
There should still be a product model which looks like NNNN-XXX. My R40 was 2722-GDM. All IBM/Lenovo products should carry this, and it is really specific right down to the config the product left the factory with.

All T60s/T61s/T61ps I've used in the last year have still carried their respective model numbers on them.
Used to be like that but T60 came with 2613-CTO on the bottom. I think they use the serial number to track the configuration now.
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