SpaceBass

Hey Folks,
I've been mulling this idea over for some time, but I'm just not an expert and need some help. I'm hoping that some of you seasoned international travelers might have some insight here...

My perception of cell service in Europe is that its more about the phone and less about the provider. That is, you typically buy an unlocked phone from any vendor and then shop for service...typically they dont have contracts...you pay month to month or "top up". At least, thats how I've done it with my old GSM phone when I travel for vacation...

I've become pretty fed up with the situation here in the states. It feels like I'm always seeing a new phone and thinking that I dont like the provider or don't want to pay $200 to leave my current provider. Then if I do make a move, I may be in the same boat again in 6 months to a year.

So, my question is, is there a way to do something similar in the US? I know I can get pre-paid sim cards from tmobile and Cingular, but I have some questions:

• What about my number- can I keep it? How big of a pain is to keep it from provider to provider?
• Data services - this is the big one for me. I want to get something like the Nokia e61 and I intend to use a lot of email and web surfing and voip... the pre-paid options I saw from cingular had very per kb access charges. Is there a way to pay like $20 month and get unlimited?
• What else do I need to know?

Currently I have a Sprint BlackBerry 7130e, which I do quite like. But I've been eyeing the Nokai e61. I'd love to be able to get it and then if I want a BlackBerry pearl for a chance, I'll pick one of those up...or if I want the newly announced BlackBerry with WiFi in a year I can do that...but I am tired of worrying about providers. Sure I could switch to cingular as my provider- they tend to get the hot GSM phones, but what if there is one they dont get? And frankly, their GSM data speeds suck right now compared to EVDO ...

Speaking of EVDO, I'm thinking I'll have to get a Sprint EVDO USB dongle b/c I tether my 7130 to my laptop a lot now. I'm guessing that if I want to keep those kinds of speeds then that is my best bet... but is there another option?

In regards to my number...one thing I'm considering (with the right phone) is using my home VoIP server to foward calls to my cell. Then I can get a cheap inbound number, when people call it the VoIP server re-directs them to my cell...so no matter which provider or cell number I have at the time, I can keep 1 number that always reaches me... but that doesnt do much for the oubound caller ID from the phone (unless I want to route back through my asterisk server).

finally, I realize this basically means I'm going to pay full price (or ebay) for phones...I'm ok with that in exchange for the freedom to be provider agnostic... I'm not sure I really will change phones much, but it would be very nice to have to freedom.

Thanks for any insight- looking forward to the advice!

ScottC

I'll respond to the rest a little later, but your initial view of the European cellphone market isn't right. Yes, it is about the phone for most users and pay as you go is pretty popular, but the vast majority is still on contracts.

There are no decent pay per use data deals in the US, and certainly nothing in a bundle.

sllevin

If you want phone flexibility, you need to go to Cingular, and then buy your phones in whatever market you want -- as long as they are quadband and support UMTS (if you care), you will be able to use them on Cingular's network.

Sprint and Verizon are definitely tougher to 'phone switch' since they only allow their approved phones on their network.

Steve

ScottC

The same of course applies to T-mobile. In my personal opinion T-mobile is better abroad and doesn't require a quadband phone.

SpaceBass

Thats certianlly good to know. I think my perception is really based on using "top up" cards when I visit Europe for pretty brief periods (IE 2x2 weeks a year)...I can get a SIM card with O2 for Ireland and then register my credit card and top it up via SMS...or I can swap it for a bouygues telecom card in Paris.. but I'm never using data (although I wish I could...)

If it helps, I'm paying about $120 for my sprint service...I dont recall exactly how many minutes I get (Mrs. SpaceBass says its 1000 but I think its a lot more), but even with all my business calls I dont use them all...I do use a LOT of data.

Also, and Im pretty sure this doesnt make a difference to me, my job does provide a Sprint cell phone (sure I can get a razor) AND a sprint data card (but that doesnt help me with my non-work macbook)... currently I'm paying for my blackberry myself...if I get a Sprint EVDO dongle it will also probably be on me (reasons I dont want do discuss online)... So I guess I'm saying: I could get a hip-ish razor (with data options disabled b/c thats our work deal) and I could get a EVDO data card (which wouldnt work on my personal laptop..and thats ok)...but that doesnt satisfy my personal desires. I'm willing to pay $50-ish/month for an EVDO USB dongle but I want my cell phone to be flexible....

When I look at it, IF I'm willing to pay full price for phones AND I want data plans AND I'm talking about the e61/BlackBerry Pearl/BlackBerry 8820/iPhone then I'm still safe with Cingular....but its the idea of the providers controlling me vs the other way around...

SpaceBass

I know (too much) about the differences b/t EVDO and GSM and WCDMA, EDGE....blah blah blah... So I' understand that A) an EVDO/CDMA phone doesnt work in Europe and B) Verizon and Sprint have both stopped authorizing phones that were not purchased from them...

Considering the later point- are (and if not, will) Cingular or T-Mobile follow? How long will I be able to buy an unlocked phone and use it on one of the GSM providers?

That also leads me to:
If I buy an unlocked phone- say the Pearl- *can* I get a blackberry plan that doesnt require a contract?

Internaut

Most people in Europe are on a contract and often pay little or nothing for their phones (for example, I didn't pay a penny for my SEK800i). When you convert the Euros or Pounds to dollars, the value isn't that good and the minute bundles here are usually smaller (perhaps as a result of the calling party paying the cost of calling a mobile in Europe)?

That said, it is not so uncommon for people in Europe to buy a phone off contract (i.e. gadget freaks who must have that latest phone and don't want to wait out their contract). Also, to the dismay of many users, European networks have a habit of over branding their handsets (witness the much hated Orange home screen).

A good site for unconnected phones is:

www.expansys.com

I used them to buy a V3 a while back and may be tempted to get the unbranded Nokia N95 when it comes out).

Internaut

FYI, Blackberry seem to deal with the network channel only. I don't believe I've ever seen an unbranded/unlocked GSM Blackberry (would be happy to be proved wrong on that point though ).

jason8612

Being out here in Poland, a lot of people are on contracts. Even I am. Then I know a lot of people who do pre paid just cause they can't sign a contract (not a country resident) Since it's all GSM/UMTS you can buy basically any unlocked GSM phone and just take out the SIM card and put it in the new phone. I do the same thing with my Tmobile in the states.
Blackberry has a funny way of working. If you don't get the network blackberry package, a lot of features are turned off on the phone, and roaming they won't work really either. I would rather and do stick with a Windows Mobile (or Palm) because roaming, all I do is put in a new sim card, set up the internet access (usually I do this before hand) and I'm ready to go.

Dubai Stu

As far as locals go in countries other than the US, your first question should be how many "actively used" sims do you have. In the UK, they are practically giving them away and many of them have very long (in some cases unlimited) durations. My wife and I visit the UK a lot. She carries a Virgin SIM card that we bought in 1999. It is still valid and is used there once a year (if that). In many countries, the mobile saturation rate is at 125% because of that. You often don't deactivate a prepaid, you stick it in your dresser drawer for a rainy day, a foreign visitor, etc.

In Dubai, most people are on prepaid. For moderate users, the rates you pay are the same whether you are on contract or prepaid, and prepaids are silly easy. Most people I know have only gone to contract when they needed international roaming. Since most people in Dubai are ex pats, many of us already have a foreign SIM card with international roaming active which we can fall back on. As previously posted, I have a United Mobile, Orange UK (OVP Virgin), and a Cingular SIM. Paying the $800 to get international roaming active on a UAE mobile made no sense.

By the way, in Dubai, Blackberry's are sold unlocked and unbranded. You can take the phone to either Etisilat or Du and get them activated. You can even activate a Blackberry on prepaid. You just send an SMS to 1010 with the appropriate code and it turns Blackberry on or Blackberry off. The same thing is true with dataservices. You can buy 10 meg, 50 meg, and a 200 meg data plan on prepaid. You just SMS it on for the month and funds are deducted. You can SMS it off. If you buy a Du SIM on prepaid right now, it is good for two years and you get your entire SIM pricse back in free minutes.

In the US, Sprint used to let you go on most plans without a contract. I used to have a Sprint datacard without a contract. I paid US$10 a month extra for not being on a contract. AMP'd mobile (a reseller of Verizon) has a prepaid EVDO plan that is competitive with the contract plans.

In the prepaid market worldwide, you are seeing a number of hybrid options coming out where you can buy a bucket of minutes up front and that need to be used within a month. Those minutes are sold at a discount. It is essentially a contract phone without a contract.

When you move from one country to another, it is often difficult to obtain credit. Even intra EU moves are problematic. I have a friend who is a British solicitor who took a temporary assignment in the Republic for her company. Her company had to get her the Irish Mobile because the Irish wanted an Irish credit history, not a UK one. For low volume users, prepaids are also often the better deal. You really need to analyze your own personal communication patterns to make this call.

bocastephen

Except their coverage is a far cry from Cingular's, which is itself a far cry from the combined coverage of Sprint/Verizon.

If one is only spending time in major urban areas and on significant roadways, TMobile is probably OK - but if you're even slightly off the beaten path, they are probably a no-go for most. For data, TMobile only offers EDGE, and from many reports, a painfully slow version of it at that.

I wish Tmobile had better coverage as well as 3G, or Cingular was a 900Mhz carrier - it would make phone and carrier choices so much easier.

sllevin

While Cingular and T-mobile *could* do this, I think it's very unlikely. They would have to move their entire extant subscriber base to fixed SIM phones, AND they would have to massively overhaul their accounting systems.

I don't believe the incremental revenue is enough to drive that business plan. I could be wrong, but I've worked in this space long enough to know what we're discussing is a Herculean proposition -- on the scale of moving from TDMA to GSM -- and that was something that took years and had a clear business case to increase "productivity" of cells.

In short, I think if they announced this tomorrow, it would be at least 5 years before it mattered -- and that's if they proclaimed it their number 1 priority.

I think it's FAR more likely that Sprint and Verizon will open their networks -- but that's like saying that by buying two lottery tickets a week instead of one you've increaed your chances of winning.

Steve

osamede

As far as contracts go, there is always at least two out of the four major UK mobile net works offfering a very good plan with phones. You just need to shop around and buy from a phone retialer rather than the network directly.

Second, the effect of the networks all using the same system is that lock-in is less. I can take my phone and go anywhere I want, unlike a Sprint customer who cannot jump with his phone to Verizon or Cingular.

Also 2 yr contracts like what are standard in the US are basiclaly undheard off here. One year is standard. A few suckers might do 18 months. Nobody with common sense here would actually go for 18 months.

Finally, the value of the packages on contracts cannot be compared since incoming minutes are unlimited - and so are incoming text messages. In the three years since I moved from the US, I have never had a plan with more than 200 minutes and the ony time I paid extra was when I went abroad. Why: free incoming messages and included text messages.

On US prepaid plans, not only do you pay for incoming calls, they even charge you for incoming text messages! Here you can buy a few minutes and with a combination of incoming calls and using text messages in and out, you pay very little if you want.

So for the savvy, you can get a lot more mobile phone service for your money here.

Expansys prices in the UK for example are higher than typical internet retailers. I wouldnt buy anything from them. And they have a nasty habit of saying new phones are "in stock" then once they have your order, taking weeks or months to actually get you the phone. Not a recommended vendor IMO.

Internaut

If you could recommend a reliable internet retailer (always been happy with Expansys but there's always a first time for a bad experience) that does good prices on unlocked phones I would be very happy .

SpaceBass

Thanks for all the great info folks!
Well, my wife jumped ship (from Sprint) and went to Helio, which is a pretty cool provider, but not for me....
I'm looking pertty seriously at ATT now because they do appear to have the best mix of devices that interest me. I guess I just have to suck it up and call sprint and pay to get out of one line and turn the other into a data plan...ouch.