What software? Office? That only works if you intend to de-install it from your old PC laptop and install it on your new PC laptop.... and why bother on the mac side? There is plenty of open source software out there that's just as good as office.

One thing that's become clear in this thread, there are a lot of passions on either side of the fence of this argument; and its one that won't end any time soon. There are mac diehards, mac converts, OS agnostics, and PC lovers and everyone's argument has merit. It is important, though, to recognize what is fact and what is opinion. (For instance, Somewhere Over the Atlantic and I might disagree on this one, but I still contend that if you spec an apple and a PC with the same components, the Apple usually comes out cheaper. Its easy enough to verify.)

That's just it. I'm talking the latest OS and brand new software. Not antiquated.

The ability to effectively run recent software is IMHO the single most important aspect of a computer's usability.

I can easily run the latest version of NeoOffice on my 7 year old 450 MHz PowerMac with the latest update of OS X installed. Try running Office 2007 and Vista on a 450 MHz Pentium and let me know how it works out for you.

Further, the Windows OS itself is outdated, before it';s even released. Vista just now picks up a lot of the features of OS X, 6 years after OS X was first released.

This is a fair enough point, although there are a great number of consumer users who don't need any software at all. My mother, for example, had an old Dell, about 7 years old, something like that. Unfortunately it was a base model when she bought it, so it was something like a 500MHz Celeron with 64MB RAM and Win 98 SE. She got a new MacBook last fall, and she hasn't bought any software yet. Quicken, something she didn't use before, was already available to her in the software bundle so she's trying that. All of Apple's consumer apps are in there, of course. And a lot of people don't need anything more. If she finds she just can't live without a more focused word processor (than Text Edit, which I could understand), then I'm going to have her try NeoOffice first before spending on anything. I know this isn't the way some people operate, but for many folks there really isn't a big software outlay to switch.

So I never made it to the Mac Store last (stuck at work) but will go there today.

My big issue now is software, which is being discussed as of late.

My email / calendar is in outlook, I use MS Office frequently (powerpoint, word and excel regularly) - the rest is just filler apps. Will NeoOffice run these or will I need to purchase an office software licence for them?

I would prefer to avoid dualboot, i.e. loading windows if I can.. rather go clean all the way.

Previously my parents have been using a Windows 2000 PC and were having lots of problems with spyware, viruses and general cryptic software issues. They only used Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, Word, Excel, and Turbotax.

I bought them an iBook several years and they have been trouble free ever since. They say that getting on Wifi when they travel is very easy in comparison to Windows. They started using iPhoto and was surprised how easy it is to email photos. My Dad started using iTunes to buy songs and burn CDs to listen in the car. I find that kind of surreal.

They say that the overall experience was much better than their PC and the iBook has never gone down for viruses or hardware issues. When they had questions, they took it down to the Apple Store and asked a live person, not someone over the phone in India.

Yes, their iBook + software cost a bit more than a PC laptop, but it has lasted much longer than I expected. It still meets their needs without problems several years later.

Their old Windows 2000 OS would probably have deteriorated to the point that it would have to have been reloaded several times by now.

I don't understand why most people "just don't get it" and actively resist.

For technical people and people who like to tinker, Windows may be fine.
I've found that for people (I'll call them normal people) who really want to use their computers to do a task (send an email, view a website, print out photos from a digicam) and be done, the Mac has been overall easier and faster, especially when you take into account training, maintenance, and support. How much is your time worth if you have to struggle with a technical issue you don't understand?

I would probably just go ahead and buy MS Office for the Mac, though there is a new version coming out soon which promises to be much better than the current 4 year old version.

If you are a student or teacher, there is a version for $129, regular version for $339 (amazon). You might also check your university's store, since they often times have much better discounts. My university had a site license and sold us the media (CD) for $10 for Office.

For your calendar, iCal is pretty capable, but it has a few quirks that irritate me, so I've been playing with Sunbird (free, Open Source app from the Mozilla team).

For email most people use the built in mail.app that ships with OSX. Its got the advantage of fitting into the Spotlight search nicely. My only gripe about mail.app (which is quite nice in most regards) is that its missing IDLE support. Thats the functionality that lets you see new mail as soon as it hits the server, verses waiting for the application to check it every 5 or 10 minutes. If you are coming off outlook connected to an exchange server then you may miss that feature too. Both Eudora (free, closed source) and Thunderbird (from mozilla team, free opensource) have IDLE support. Thunderbird's interface is a little sparse, but I've been using it for a few weeks and really like it. The MS Office trail that comes on the mac will have Entourage which is an outlook-like app of the mac... I couldn't stand it frankly , but you might want to try it (its lacking true support for exchange, so it functions like an IMAP client basically).

I'd suggest looking at NeoOffice first. I will say that I've found its presentation app to be a little lackluster in the template and design department. Any mac will come with a trial copy of Keynote, which in my opinion is a powerpoint killer... They also come with a trial of MS Office for Mac...so try NeoOffice and Keynote and MS Office and see which you like best.

nice forum, but MUCH more traffic and info here at macrumors.com

Checkout the marketplace for all types of items, I have bought many things there. RAM, ipods, accessories, LCD's, etc.

I think it's because people (Mac) keep telling us how bad Windows is, yet we have no problems. Same with American cars. Everyone tells me they're junk, but I've never had trouble with them. It gets to a point where you just stop listening to it anymore.

Don't misunderstand me. I want a Mac, but at this time it's just not cost effective for me.

Ok I just clued into this talking to my friend - the memory on the MacBook is shared, as it would be on my HP. Only 64 MB here, my HP would have 288 MB of shared video memory.

Am I missing something or am I getting a lot less computer for the extra $400? 40GB less on harddrive, 228 MB less video memory, no lightscribe DVD burner... only real negative with my HP is Vista (ugh!).

Valid points. The Macbook also has a smaller screen.

It does however also include an integrated webcam, magnetic latch, Magsafe power connector, 802.11N, Bluetooth 2.0, iLife software applications, among other things I'm probably forgetting, which is not in the HP. How much are those things worth? The magsafe cord saved me several times already from having my computer fly onto the ground.

What do you plan to do with 228 MB of shared video memory that the MB can't do with 64?

Also, a lot of the value of the Mac comes not from the hardware, but the integration with the software and the improved interface. Currently, the lack of viruses and spyware is a compelling reason for a lot of people. With Windows you will assuredly have to run antivirus software and the commercial antivirus software has moved to a yearly subscription.

Keep in mind that a Mac with inferior specs on paper can outperform a superior-spec'ed Windows machine.

That's a weird question. Usually with video memory, it's the more you have, the better.

If American cars are not junk, then Windows is an excellent OS.

Re. the cost issue, I think your reasoning is faulty. Yes, the purchase cost of a Mac will set you back a bit more. However, how much is your time worth?

When I look at my friends using Windows, I am amazed at the time they spend trying to figure things out, downloading spyware, virus protection, updates.

My guess is a Mac pays for itself within a week to 2 months of purchase, depending on your hourly pay rate .

Though you can, I would think that most poeple don't often connect their Macbook to mega size external monitors. The Macbook has a fixed size screen, so the resolution is know. 64 mb is enough to run all the Quartz Extreme effects. From the OP description of using the Internet and Office apps, I don't think they would really need more.