Apple to Move to Intel Chips
#1
Original Poster


Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Programs: Hilton Gold, Priority Club Platinum (until December), FB Explorer, BA Blue, M&M Pleb
Posts: 8,616
Apple to Move to Intel Chips
Subject line says it all:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4611505.stm
Personally, I'll be dissapointed if this is true as it will bring us all one step closer to having no real choice when it comes to buying a PC.
Regards
I
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4611505.stm
Personally, I'll be dissapointed if this is true as it will bring us all one step closer to having no real choice when it comes to buying a PC.
Regards
I
#3
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Westjet Platinum, Fairmont Platinum RIP, Accor Gold, Marriott Lifetime Silver, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,296
Just imagine an "Intel Inside" sticker on a PowerMac case!
Intel develops plenty of technology other than CPU's. For Apple to switch to an Intel CPU processor would not only be a significant amount of work on Apple's part (remember the switch from 680xx to PowerPC), but would not be a trivial matter for software developers who would have to make major changes to their applications as well. While I wouldn't rule out the use of Intel technology inside a Mac, I'm skeptical of a switch in CPU.
I guess we will have further insight to these developments tomorrow during Job's keynote at the WWDC, otherwise it's a media frenzy on an otherwise slow news day.
Intel develops plenty of technology other than CPU's. For Apple to switch to an Intel CPU processor would not only be a significant amount of work on Apple's part (remember the switch from 680xx to PowerPC), but would not be a trivial matter for software developers who would have to make major changes to their applications as well. While I wouldn't rule out the use of Intel technology inside a Mac, I'm skeptical of a switch in CPU.
I guess we will have further insight to these developments tomorrow during Job's keynote at the WWDC, otherwise it's a media frenzy on an otherwise slow news day.
#4
Join Date: Aug 2000
Programs: I am an AS employee, but my comments do not represent the company in any official capacity.
Posts: 4,343
From http://www.macintouch.com
What hasn't been elaborated on in this dramatic shift is that Mac OS X has already made a transition to the x86 platform, in the previous incarnation known as NeXTstep. Over a decade ago, while Apple was fumbling around with Copland (the 'Longhorn' of the 90's), NeXT successfully ported their OS from Motorola chips to run on Sparc, HP-PA, and Pentium processors. For the most part developers only needed to recompile their code using NeXT's development tools to run on any or all platforms. Towards the end of NeXTstep's existence, most of the installations were already running on Intel machines.
Fast forward to Apple's purchase of NeXT after running into a dead-end with their own OS efforts. Not only did they get the robust foundation of what we now brag about in the form of Tiger, but the code had already gone through the arduous process of becoming multi-platform, even though that was not one of the original goals of future Macintosh OS development. It was mostly a hidden feature, just waiting for the right time to 'flip the switch' to turn it on.
I don't wish to oversimplify the task ahead of shifting the Mac over to a new processor, but the hard work has already been done. Certainly there will be potholes along the way as developers rewrite their code or in some cases abandon the platform altogether. But for any software firm that is committed to ongoing development of their applications anyway, adding support for x86 processors shouldn't be an extraordinary effort
Fast forward to Apple's purchase of NeXT after running into a dead-end with their own OS efforts. Not only did they get the robust foundation of what we now brag about in the form of Tiger, but the code had already gone through the arduous process of becoming multi-platform, even though that was not one of the original goals of future Macintosh OS development. It was mostly a hidden feature, just waiting for the right time to 'flip the switch' to turn it on.
I don't wish to oversimplify the task ahead of shifting the Mac over to a new processor, but the hard work has already been done. Certainly there will be potholes along the way as developers rewrite their code or in some cases abandon the platform altogether. But for any software firm that is committed to ongoing development of their applications anyway, adding support for x86 processors shouldn't be an extraordinary effort
#5


Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: BCN
Programs: BA Silver VY apologist IB up and coming
Posts: 8,706
http://developer.apple.com/darwin/
They've been running on x86 processors for years. They just haven't been offering the commercial product.
This shift will not be anything like the shift to PowerPC - it's apples and oranges. I have developed software for OS X Server and gotten it to run on Darwin, and it is near trivial.
The fun part will be when "the hackers" get the OS hacked so it will run on your garden-variety Dell box.
They've been running on x86 processors for years. They just haven't been offering the commercial product.
This shift will not be anything like the shift to PowerPC - it's apples and oranges. I have developed software for OS X Server and gotten it to run on Darwin, and it is near trivial.
The fun part will be when "the hackers" get the OS hacked so it will run on your garden-variety Dell box.
#7
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Programs: DL MM Plat, PC&HH Gold
Posts: 2,602
I think this would be a moronic move by apple. I've been a customer a long time. But, if they force me to repurchase all my software I will leave them for Linux or maybe even Windows.
I can't believe that Jobs would even consider blowing away his installed base.
I can't believe that Jobs would even consider blowing away his installed base.
#9
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shanwick
Posts: 3,117
Originally Posted by joelfreak
Just because of it saying "Intel" doesnt mean x86...
#10




Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Austin TX
Programs: Mr Swise: AAdvantage LifetimePlt/3MM, HH Dmnd, SPG Plt
Posts: 1,451
Originally Posted by doglover
I think this would be a moronic move by apple. I've been a customer a long time. But, if they force me to repurchase all my software I will leave them for Linux or maybe even Windows.
I can't believe that Jobs would even consider blowing away his installed base.
I can't believe that Jobs would even consider blowing away his installed base.
All your software will work seamlessly on an Intel version of OS X when the boxes come out. No need to repurchase. It will not take full advantage of the performance possible from the processor, but, seeing as how the Intel chips will run faster than a PPC would anyway, it will be a wash.
Steve said that developers will be able to port their PowerPC software fairly painlessly and can produce hybrid binaries (able to run on either PPC or Intel) using XCode easily.
One of the demos during the keynote was Mathematica running on an Intel Mac. The representative from Wolfram Research, which produces Mathematica, said that they ported the OS X version this weekend to Intel in two hours.
I'm sure there will be some snags, and not all will go as smoothly as presented today, but considering that a production-ready, Intel version of OS X has been developed in parallel with the PPC version for each and every release of OS X (5 in the past 5 years), it's not coming out of the blue. It's been in the back pocket now since the beginning, as Steve said, "just in case."
There will probably be a webcast of the keynote available later today. I'll post a link as soon as I see it.
Last edited by swise; Jun 6, 2005 at 12:45 pm
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Programs: Bar Alliance Gold
Posts: 16,280
Frankly I think it is a great move. As noted, OS X is pretty much hardware agnostic and the few apps that work in PowerPC Assembler should be able to be ported over.
This will allow Apple to offer more powerful desktops and laptops, and since most current-generation Macs already use the same I/O interfaces as Windows/Unix/Linux PCs do, the move should be far more seamless then the 680x0 to PowerPC switch was - and Apple handled that quite well from the software side.
This will allow Apple to offer more powerful desktops and laptops, and since most current-generation Macs already use the same I/O interfaces as Windows/Unix/Linux PCs do, the move should be far more seamless then the 680x0 to PowerPC switch was - and Apple handled that quite well from the software side.
#13




Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Austin TX
Programs: Mr Swise: AAdvantage LifetimePlt/3MM, HH Dmnd, SPG Plt
Posts: 1,451
Originally Posted by CelticFlyer
It absolutely does. The volume that Apple buys simply can't support the R&D bill required for modern processor development and even with IBM's games console sales of the PPC processor the selection of PPC processors available doesn't look good compared to Intel's range. If they had done this back when they started integrating the Next OS into the Mac product they would probably have more market share today!
What type of Intel chip wasn't really talked about in the keynote, but I would assume they'll be using whatever Intel is already developing/producing. They didn't mention any plans to begin producing PPC processors, and, in fact, Steve said that the PPC roadmap simply won't meet Apple's needs down the line, particularly with respect to the expected power-to-performance ratio.
#14


Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: BCN
Programs: BA Silver VY apologist IB up and coming
Posts: 8,706
Considering they already had a box running at the keynote I doubt there is any new processor in the works. I notice also that members of the Mac dev community can pick up a new intel box for a grand, presumably fairly soon.
What, o what, will the poor fanboys and sycophants do now? The PowerPC is way faster than Intel! Just look at the <insert random oddly-weighted benchmark here>! Gaussian blur is 4% faster!"
LOL
What, o what, will the poor fanboys and sycophants do now? The PowerPC is way faster than Intel! Just look at the <insert random oddly-weighted benchmark here>! Gaussian blur is 4% faster!"
LOL
#15
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shanwick
Posts: 3,117
Originally Posted by swise
What type of Intel chip wasn't really talked about in the keynote, but I would assume they'll be using whatever Intel is already developing/producing. They didn't mention any plans to begin producing PPC processors, and, in fact, Steve said that the PPC roadmap simply won't meet Apple's needs down the line, particularly with respect to the expected power-to-performance ratio.
I'll be interested to see what they do. Maybe I'll buy a Mac again at some point! I abandoned them years ago in favor of ugly boxes that had orders of magnitude more software available.


