Hello,

I'm looking for everyone's expertise for my next big investment. I'm looking for a digital camera with good quality and that I can hook up to a Mac and burn movies onto DVD. I was originally looking at this:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...onics&n=507846

But that price is just too much.

The second thing is that I need a new computer -- i'm leaning towords a Mac because right now i'm on a PC (Vaio) and its driving me nuts -- I miss my iBook. Bluetooth is very important to me (to cut down on wires) since i'm looking to get a bluetooth printer too and probably a wireless keyboard. If the desktop wasn't TOO pricey I was also thinking to getting a new iBook to serve as a companion to the desktop, whether it be a mac or not.

Any suggestions to either the camera or the computer would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd hate to make a bad decision on a big investment like this. Thanks.

The Sony you link to is lovely, but it is also an HDTV camera, for "daily" use you'd be better off with a good 3CCD camera, my personal favourite is the Panasonic GS-150.

These Panasonic devices are pretty much the cheapest 3CCD cameras out there at the moment.

3CCD is better as there is one CCD chip for each color, instead of the camera alternating between each color on just one chip and mixing them together.

The site that I used to purchase my camera was http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ . They have a page that shows their favorites at several price points, as well as in-depth reviews. A 3CCD camera similar to the one Scott recommended (the GS120) is their favorite under $800.

As far as computer recommendations, I'll stay out of the PC VS Mac holy wars. If you do choose a Mac desktop, I think the iMac is the sweet spot in the Apple non-portable lineup right now. The 2Ghz 17" or 20" would make for a really sweet editing station, and the included software (iMovie and iDVD) is really capable. We've had lots of fun with it.

PC's ROCKS! Mac's SUCK!

As Scott noted, the FX1 is an HD camcorder. At the moment, there are absolutely no delivery vehicles for video that it produces, and editing it will be quite a pain. I don't know about Mac solutions, but editing on the PC can be done with Premiere Pro AND an expensive additional plug-in from MediaConcepts.

A far better choice is a good 3-CCD machine. If you're shooting home stuff, the hands-down, most-bang-for-the-book, extraordinary video quality, low-light wizard solution is the prosumer Sony VX2100. If you're shooting pro and need XLR mike inputs, look at the professional version, the PD-170.

I'm not a big fan of the Panny 3-CCD machines. The better ones don't have as good low-light performance as the Sony, and the lower-priced ones are just dismal.

One other note: Robin Liss' site (camcorderinfo.com) is quite good and comprehensive, but Robin's reviews are sometimes quite subjective and a little odd.

With camcorders, a critical question is what you intend to use them for. So . . . what do you intend to use it for?

Incidently, I'm a PC guy so, I suppose, I'm biased, but I also believe that any tool which does the job is the right tool. Macs have no advantage over PCs for video editing and production, cost significantly more, and has fewer software options available.

Well first off, what the heck does 3-CCD mean. As far as that high def. camera, I thought that Mac had a whole line of HD movie editing software but regardless, that's really expensive.

What I intend to use it for:

Well, for filming things Mainly low budget films around the area -- like filming "new episodes" of discontinued TV series with my friends playing the characters or for vacation footage. Perhaps cheesy documentaries? I'm not really sure.

As far as Mac VS. PC for movie edited -- I always was lead to believe that Macs were HANDS DOWN better for that task. Have I been deceived? I was looking at the iMac's and they look really nice -- my knowledge of PC's (and electronics in general) generally is whatever is in this weeks Best Buy Ad so all this is GREATLY appriciated!

Edited to add:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...onics&n=507846

Is that what you were talking about PTravel?

Links would be greatly appriciated

(Edited again for typos)

You can edit HDV with Apple's iMovie - the program that comes free with Macs. If you find iMovie limiting (I don't, but I don't do anything fancy), you could move up to Final Cut Express ($299). You're really not likely to need Apple's Pro line, but Final Cut Studio, which includes Final Cut Pro 5, Soundtrack Pro, Motion 2 and DVD Studio Pro 4 is a steal at $1299 for those who need it. As far as delivery vehicles go, you can make 16:9 DVDs and use the extra pixels for cropping/reframing, or you can output the video to your HDTV.

Apple hardware is usually more expensive than PC hardware, but it comes with much better software. I think if you compare the total package between an iMac and a Dell, you'll find they come out about the same.

What camera do you have? Also, which would you lean towords, fully loaded 12" ibook or fully loaded 17" imac?

I have the GS120 and the 12" iBook. The GS150 has replaced the GS120. If video editing is your primary reason for the computer, I'd get the iMac. It's got a faster processor, a DVD burner, a better video card, more RAM, and a bigger and faster disk, all of which are important for video editing. The iBook's only advantage is its portability.

You'll probably want to bump the RAM, but I wouldn't buy it from Apple. They really overcharge for RAM upgrades. Get either 512MB or 1 GB from crucial. Also you will probably want a bluetooth mouse with more than 1 button.

I would not buy FCE until you've played with iMovie. It's really fairly capable.

So what is the difference between the GS120 and this:


http://reviews.cnet.com/Panasonic_PV...2.html?tag=top

As far as iMovie, i've heard it's an incredible movie editing program.

murphy , you edit with your iBook? How well does the GS120 communicate with the Mac? Firewire to connect the two I presume?

Thanks for all this advice guys -- it's nice to be armed with all this knowledge for a purchases this big and not having to rely on that Best Buy weekly Ad.

So wait a second -- say with the GS120 (http://reviews.cnet.com/4545-6500_7-....html?tag=tab), it is a digital video camera correct? How does it connect to the computer? Firewire? Also, when you film is it filmed onto a cartridge and the computer copies from that cartridge or is it saved to memory. I'm confused Just want to make sure I don't inadvertly purchase the wrong thing...

Yes, these are digital video cameras. They write onto miniDV cartridges. You use firewire to move the data to a computer and edit it. The GS120 is an old model - it's been replaced by the GS150, which has more pixels. The GS250 looks similar to the 150, but is higher resolution. Here's a side-by-side review of the two. You may also want to look at the GS400, the comp Sony models, and the Canon Optura models. I don't know much about the other brands, but the VX2100 that Ptravel recommmended looks really nice. It's almost certainly a better camera than the GS150 or 250. I'd guess it's more comparable to the GS400.

The GS120 communicates flawlessly with my iBook. I plug the firewire cable in, and that's about it. No drivers to install or anything. One of the best things about the Mac is the seemlessness of the experience with my cameras - both still and video. The iBook is okay for video editing, but if I were going to spend most of my time doing it, I'd want something faster.

I feel like every time I post I add to your confusion. Sorry. I always have a hard time making purchasing decisions like this, too. I agonized over the camera choice for weeks. You ought to go to a store and play with them a little. If you can, buy it somewhere without a restock fee. If you're unhappy with it, take it back.

Auxiliary question: I already have the hardware: a Sony digital videocam and an Intel-based PC. It's a P-4 with USB2.0, plenty of RAM, an 8x DVD burner (although I have a huge stack of 4x media 'cause it was cheap) and a good enough video card to handle my home movie editing.

My question is software.

I'm using Roxio 7.0 now, and it works, but it's cumbersome. Is there anything out there that is somewhat better? My constraint is that for now I'm not considering new hardware, so don't say "Go buy a Mac!"

My "holy grail" application would be one that would provide for photo, music, and video organization, editing, and media creation. Roxio has most of these features, but they just seem kind of duct-taped together. There isn't a seamless, intuitive GUI to get a complete noob like me through the process of editing and creating a home movie, with some stills and music dropped in, with attractive DVD menus, transitions, etc. without hosing it up a dozen times.

Video 101:

"CCD" means "charge-coupled device." It's the kind of light sensor used in camcorders (many, if not most, high-quality digital still cameras use CMOS -- complimentary molybdenum-oxide substrate). A single-CCD camcorder has one such device, which consists of many small sensors on a single substrate. Overlaying the substrate is a matrix of tiny red, green and blue filters, which allows the camera to generate a full-color image. 3-CCD cameras have three sensors. Light reaches them, usually, by passing through a beam-splitting prism and dichoric filters -- one filter will receive red, one green and the other blue.

Low-light performance, i.e. how sensitive the camcorder is to poorly-lit subjects, is a function of sensor size and, to a lesser extent, sensor density. The bigger the sensor, the more light falls on it and the better the low-light performance. For awhile now, consumer camcorder manufacturers have been adding gizmos, gimmicks and doodads as marketing ploys. The most destructive of these, from the standpoint of video quality, is "high resolution" digital still imaging capability. First, it is "high resolution" only in the context of camcorders -- even the meanest p&s digital still camera will have as good or better resolution. However, packing extra sensors sites on the CCD diminishes low-light sensitivity. The combination of shrinking form-factors and high-resolution still imaging means that consumer camcorders perform absymally in low-light.

Bringing this discussion back to 3-CCD machines, a 3-CCD camcorder that uses 1/4" sensors (huge in comparison to many consumer models which are down to 1/6") will have 3/4" of sensor area to gather light. A single CCD camcorder will only 1/4", so the 3-CCD machine will have far more light sensitivity.

Cross-talk between sensor sites in a 1-CCD machines causes chroma noise -- very tiny speckles of differing colors that look like grain. 3-CCD machines use physically separate sensors for each color, so there is no cross-talk. As a result, 3-CCD machines have vastly reduced chroma noise as well as better color saturation.

With all that said, Panasonic introduced a line of inexpensive consumer 3-CCD machines. The lower range of these machines have small CCDs, mediocre glass, and middling electronics. They have poor low-light performance and the quality of their video is actually below that produced by some of the top-of-the-line Canon and Sony single-CCD camcorders.

So, there you have it: probably far more than you wanted to know about 3-CCD machines.

First of all, you have to define what you mean by HD. JVC and Sony both produce prosumer camcorders that they designate as "HD." The JVC is 720p, the Sony is 1080i. However, both use a version of mpeg compression to store video on standard miniDV cassettes -- raw HD video would consumer far more storage than could practically be contained on a miniDV/miniDV-cam cassette.

Editing this stuff is more complex than merely editing HD. Mpeg is a lossy-compression format that produces intermediate frames by calculating differences between base frames, i.e. most frames in an mpeg video file do not contain the complete data necessary to reconstruct them. This makes frame-accurate editing quite difficult.

There are software packages available for both Mac and PC that will allow exisiting editors to handle the output of both the JVC and Sony HD camcorders. However, because of the gymanastics involved in editing the mpeg-encoded HD, you'll need a very powerful computer, a fair amount of memory and, in any event, editing will still be less fluid and more awkward than with uncompressed, or non-lossy compressed formats.

I have the HD mpeg-plugin installed on my PC system (I run Premiere Pro 1.5) because it's an easy way to work with standard definition mpeg video. On my 3 GHz Pentium 4 with 512 meg of RAM, previews, renders and even timeline scrubs of mpeg material are slowed compared to the DV-codec video that I usually work with. I wouldn't expect signficant slowing from Sony or JVC HD material beyond what I'm already experiencing, but the fact remains that it's a lot easier to work with non-mpeg source footage.

Everything depends on "how cheesy."

I'm only an amateur, but I'm fairly advanced in the kinds of stuff that I do. I have a Sony VX2000, which is a prosumer 3-CCD machine. These cameras, and their successors (the VX2100), produce extraordinary, better-than-broadcast-quality video, and are used for ENG (electronic news gathering) by the BBC. The prosumer version has a built-in stereo microphone, stereo minijack for external mikes, a color viewfinder and uses miniDV only. The professional version (the PD150/170) has a monophonic on-camera microphone, XLR jacks for plugging in external mikes, and a black and white viewfinder, which facilitates critical focusing.

The movie "Open Water" was shot, at least partially, with a stock VX2000.

Up from this is the Canon XL series, which offer the advantage of interchangeable lenses, considered critical if you're really going to be making movies. The movie "28 Days Later" was shot with these. Note, though, that you're not going make a film like that with a stock camera -- you'll take the body, buy extremely expensive accessory lenses, add matte boxes, and put it on a custom rig to hold the whole thing on a large and expensive video head and tripod.

The VX2000/2100 is bigger and heavier than an average consumer camcorder, but no so big or heavy that it isn't feasible to use for travel (that's what I use it for). The XL1/2 is bigger and heavier still. I've seen folks travel with one, but it's really too big for that.

Depends on what you mean by "better." At the prosumer level, PCs are cheaper, software is cheaper, and there are far more titles available than for Macs. At that level, Macs offer no advantage over PCs, unless you're already heavily invested in Mac hardware and software.

I've always put together my own PCs, so I can't suggest any brands. If you're knowledge of computers is limited, you may not want to go this route, though it's really become quite simple to assemble a PC from components.

It is, but the description is completely wrong. The VX2100 isn't a high definition camcorder. Also, the street price at a reputable store, e.g. B&H or Adorama, should be around $2,200 out-the-door.

Try here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=303956&is=REG

Unfortunately, you're trying to mix apples and oranges.

For a good, flexible, intuitive entry-level video editing program, take a look at Pinnacle Studio 9 or Adobe Premiere Elements. Studio 9 is probably a bit more capable, but it is notoriously finnicky about the hardware configuration of the computers on which it is run. Unfortunately, there are few goo all-in-one packages. Going from camcorder to DVD requires a few distinct steps:

1. Capture (bringing the video into the computer)
2. Editing (rearranging clips, adding titles, special effects, corrections, etc.)
3. Transcoding (converting the video into DVD-compliant mpeg format)
4. Authoring (creating the menus, buttons and linkages for the DVD)
5. Burning (burning the finished, formatted DVD information to a DVD)

If you want good results, use the best software for each of these applications. My work chain is as follows:

Capture: Scenealyzer Live
Editing: Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5
Transcoding: tmpgenc 3.5
Authoring: Adobe Encore 1.5
Burning: Nero 6.0

You can, without giving up too much, rely on your video editor for capturing, editing and transcoding. At minimum, I'd recommend a separate package for authoring and burning, unless you plan on only the most basic, stark menus.

Note that Scenealyzer Live, tmpgenc and Nero are all very inexpensive programs. Premiere and Encore aren't, but you could use Premiere Elements or Studio for your editor. Unfortunately, I have no suggestions for an inexpensive authoring program -- they're around, but I never found one that was full-featured enough for me.