Doesn't seem to fall under technology per say, however, I've found the folks on this board to be quite knowledgeable on a wide variety of topics so, here goes.

I'm looking for a new watch. It will be for every day use and will need to be sporty, yet look good enough with a suit and for more formal occasions. I've checked out www.timezone.com and it is a fantastic site if you want to learn a lot about watches. The owners are fanatical about their brands and really get into the details about the various movements, etc. A fantastic resource, however, it hasn't made my decision easier, only a lot more difficult. I thought having more information would be better, how mistaken I was.

I've narrowed it down to Breitling, Omega, or one of the less expensive Rolexes (sp??). TAG seems to be a good brand but it gets panned as a "pretender". I would prefer automatic movements.

What does everyone here wear? Can you offer any suggestions?

It sounds like you price range is in the $2k - $5k area. If so, I'd dump Rolex (even more a pretender, although on a different level) and add IWC to your short list.

http://www.omega.ch/omega/wo_space_x33



You can find this with the titanium strap at Costco for around $1500 most of the time.

It's handy for travellers because it's digital back lets you set multiple timezones.

The Tag Kirium F1 looks pretty much the same.

Why?

The one thing that's great about a (sports) Rolex is that it will always hold it's value. It's practically impossible to get a decent discount (>15%) on a new one.

That Speedmaster X33 looks interesting BTW. Do you have one Scott?

Rolex is just so common. No serious horologist would be caught dead with one. Anything with serious complications (jewels) holds its value way better than a Rolex ( which is a stupid argument as the real knowledge of whether your timepiece will hold some value or seriously appreciate will generally be known in 50 years or so). As stated above, IWC's are good. So are Breguets and Panerai's. Tag's are utter rubbish, Zenith isn't bad, while most Omega's are also quite common. Breitling's are good but low end Baume and Merciers are not. If you want something really special go for a Lang und Sohne.

Boy, that statement will get you quite a reply on TZ. Rolex is one of very few 'manufacturers' that make their own movements and is quite well regarded in the horology circles. They are not an extinct brand that was resurected a few years back (Breitling and many others....) and have a real and significant place in history. No, not a Patek or Lange in terms of quality, but a good next-tier product. No, I don't own any and wouldn't want to as they are too 'popular' for me, but I greatly respect them.

Complications (flyback, chrono, perpetual, etc.) and jewels (synthetic rubies - corundum - that are used in movements) have very little, if anything, to do with each other. Oh, and it's "A. Lange & S�hne".



Back to the original question - to me Breitling is a bit too much marketing, not enough substance (and I have 3 of them - wanna buy used?). Omega is a good solid choice - I have an SMP I am very happy with. TAG - no (yes, I have one, haven't worn it in 2 years).

Take a look at a Maurice Lacroix Calendrier Retrograde - a very nice piece from an watchmaker on the rise. It is a handwind though, so know what you are getting. Perhaps a Chronoswiss - I like my Regulateur, or a Ulysse Nardin - my Michelangelo UTC is one of my favorites. I greatly respect IWC, great product for the $$$, although none of their designs appeal to me right now.

If you want to drop more $$$, Lange would be my top pick, then JLC or VC.

My advice is to look at lots of options, think about them, then buy what you like. I bought Breitling(s) because they were 'hot' and friends had them. Now they sit in a case. I liked the ML, even though I had never heard of them, so I bought it. I am happy every time I wear it, and everyone now seems to be catching on. Don't worry about the name, reputation, snob appeal, etc. - heck, if you like a Tag and it will make you happy, that's what's important.

I'll keep an eye out for you at TZ.

Yes I do. Mine originally had the Kevlar strap, but I had it replaced for the Titanium strap. It looks good, has a backlit display and is durable. All I need in a watch. IF you are looking for a watch in that lower price segment then Omega or Breitling are good buys. As I said, check out the local Costcos, they often have awesome deals on these brand watches.

If I was spending that kind of money for a watch, I would look at the antique market. There are not many, but a few really excellent hand made used pieces available for that range.

I love antique timepieces, way more then new ones, at least the new ones I can afford. Lots of people trade them in when people die or are looking for a new rolex or something.

Nothing classier then a piece of hand made machinery that you wear on your wrist that has been working for 100 or so years.

I'll let you calling me stupid slide, but please be a little bit more reasonable if you care to reply again.

Rolex increases it's prices on a regular basis and rarely updates it's designs. The price increases are usually a lot more than can be attributed to inflation. As a result a Submariner from 1980 looks very similar to one you would buy today. Consequently the value of the watch bought in 1980 appreciates from the price paid in the direction of the current model's price. Granted, it doesn't ever reach that price, but still appreciates significantly. Compared to most watch models in this price range that rarely sell for the manufacturer's recommended price even at launch (and go for a large discount second hand), Rolex sports models hold their value well. This is especially true when compared to the other brands mentioned by the OP - Breitling, Omega and Tag Heuer.

You imply that their is some connection between the number of jewels a watch has and how it holds it's value. I'd like to see some examples of this. I'm guessing that for every one you can give, there are five that show that higher jewel count for little when it comes to maintaining value.

I like Panerais and bought one a few months ago, but fear they may be just the 'hot' watch of the moment like Breitlings were when CPRich bought his. In any case, I don't see it maintaining it's value like a Rolex.

Tags are another watch that was 'hot' for a while. My experience with them is that they are very poor quality. I still have one that I received as a gift many years ago. I stopped wearing it when it needed a third visit back for repair after the luminova kept detaching itself from the hands.


I agree. A beautiful old Longines was left to me when I was a teenager. It doesn't get out much, but feels very special on my wrist on those rare occasions.

Rolex may make their own movements, but I believe that much of the rest of the watch (hands, face, etc) are actually made by the Stern group, and have been for many years. Real second hand value is often different to what is banded about on "boards" go take your Daytona down to a watch shop and see what they'll really give you. If you have never worn it, and kept it in a box, maybe its worth a lot, wear it regularly and forget about those great prices.

There is also a difference between Panerai and Breitling. You are right that Breitling was a "recreation", I do believe however that Panerai always made watches, although in incredibly small and insignificant numbers over the years.

Wow, there is a lot of myth, misinformation and hyperbole here that needs correcting.

Disclosure: I currently own five Rolexes, two Breitlings, two Omegas, one IWC, and one Jaeger-LeCoultre. I have owned and disposed of another IWC, another Rolex, and an A. Lange. My next significant purchase will be either another JLC or a Glashutte Original.

First, Haute Horologie: Haute Horologie pretty much deals with watch making houses that work in the finest traditions of the art as they were developed around the late 18th century. These are watches that are still almost entirely handmade and more importantly hand finished. Each piece tends to have a high degree of individuality and uniqueness. Many of these watches will also contain one or more of the more difficult complications such as a Tourbillion, Minute Repeater, Perpetual Calender, etc. They also produce watches by the dozens [sometimes by the hundreds] not by the thousands or hundreds of thousands. Haute Horologie brands encompass firms that are as much two hundred years old [Breguet, Vacheron Constantin, Patek Philippe, etc.] to firms that are less than 20 years old [Frank Muller, A. Lange, RGM, Daniel Roth, etc.].

Below the level of Haute Horologie is a large group of brands that make truly fine watches, call it the high end of the middle level. Some use their own movements and some use ebauches [basic movements that are refined by the individual brand] from the likes of ETA/Valjoux, Unitas, Zenith, etc. While many of these watches are machine-made/assembled to some degree or another, and their production numbers can be as high as 800,000 per year in the case of Rolex, they are still fine timepieces. These brands include Rolex, IWC, Zenith, Jaeger-LeCoultre, etc.

Rolex: Rolex is an interesting company. Their watches and their mystique are a combination of true horological innovation, fine watch making, and marketing hype. Though Rolex does not make any watches that contain more than the basic complications [seconds, date, autowind, chronograph] they do make truly wonderful movements. They are not finished particularly well because a] it saves cost and b] you couldn't see it anyway as Rolex does not incorporate any exhibition case backs or dials but they are tough and dead-on accurate. Rolex is also among a very few brands that makes all of their movements [the Daytona's Zenith El Primero movement now replaced by a completely in-house creation]. And yes, about $1000 of the price of a Rolex is down to buying the status of owning a 'Rolex'. Personally I find their steel models to be aesthetically pleasing, well designed, and very accurate models. Over-priced and over-hyped by those who really know nothing about watches? Absolutely, but still a fine, ,attractive and accurate watch IMHO.

Officine Panerai: A recent cult phenomena watch. This Italian make does have a decent history that goes back to the first part of the last century [they made nautical instruments before that]. Interestingly, The first Panerai's used Rolex sourced movements. Today they use movements sourced from ETA/Valjoux and Unitas just as Breitling, Omega, and IWC do. Their casework is pretty nice though their dials would not otherwise indicate their $3500+ price.

I must say that IWC is losing some of it street cred among the horology intelligentsia as they move away from making their own movements to using ETA/Valjoux more and more.

It should be noted that there are several brands such as Audemars Piguet, Girard Perregaux, Blancpain and Glashutte Original that a have a line of watches in both the Haute Horologie and mid-level camps.

The next level, the mid-level of the high-end if you will, contains brands that also have long and storied traditions of fine watch making such as Omega, Breitling, and Oris. Some would argue that Rolex belongs in this group and I can see their point. Also, arguably, this group of watches really belongs in a larger, expanded middle group to which I can also see this point.

Next you come to the lower end of the high-end. Brands such as Minerva, Sinn, Bell&Ross, and many others.

Finally you come to the lowest level. These are watches that may work quite well, keep time perfectly, etc. but their brands are simply marketing tools. Brands such as TAG, Sector, Fossil, etc. These brands have no real watchmakers, their watches are cobbled together from parts outsourced to many other companies and assembled by still other companies. Again, these brands are just a marketing firms and not watch making firms.

Whew.

Gotta stop here, barely touched on any of these subjects in-depth but it is a reasonable start.

Anarkitec, I almost agreed 100% with what you said, till the last part where you put all Tag's in the same bunch...

While it's true that Tag makes some pretty cheap watches that fit your description they also have lines of timepieces that certainly don't.

I'm going to be in SIN soon. I can pick up some Rolexes or Pateks for you guys if you want.

Thanks for the help. I'm really only just starting to learn about timepieces, their movements, # of jewels, etc., etc. and find it to be a fascinating experience.

My budget does not allow me to purchase or collect at the same level as most of you here, but call me an interested beginner. I have an awful lot to learn.

IWC was not a brand that I had originally considered, but I will now. Patek Philippe, et al are far too expensive for my resources (and I'd be afraid to wear it on a daily basis - I'm very hard on watches). I enjoy the classic look of the Omega Seamaster and could see myself with one of those. I must confess, I always thought that Omega and breitling were very high end - shows you I have a lot to learn.

Thanks for your assistance. Keep posting as I've really learned something here. Any other good sites out there other than TZ?

CPRich:

I've been looking at the Sales Corner on TZ and see a lot of good deals (or so it seems). How reputable is the sales piece of it? Can most of the people on this site be trusted? Does buying used invalidate the warranty?

I ask these questions because people here seem to buy a watch and then turn around and sell it for half price 2 months later? I know that I couldn't afford to take a bath like that on a $2-3000 watch, let alone some of the fine timepieces there.

In your experience, am I better off paying more, but buying from an established dealer?