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Old Dec 7, 2013 | 9:42 am
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Laptops: Most Performance/Expandability per Pound

It's been a good year for my newly formed business, and the boss (me) is going to treat his only employee (me) to a new laptop. While my venerable ThinkPad T400 is still an acceptable performer maxed out with 8GB of RAM and a 250GB SSD (plus a 750GB spinner in the ultrabay), I'd like to move to something a bit lighter while still maximizing performance.

Ideally, I'd like to get to 32GB of RAM to support up to 6 or 7 WinXP, Win64 7/8/8.1, Ubuntu/RedHat/Centos Virtual Machines; an i7-class processor, and at least a 1080px vertical resolution with a minimum 14" screen. And of course I want it to weigh 4lbs or less

I don't care so much about the hard drive, as I'll likely replace it with an SSD if it doesn't already come with one. Something like an ultrabay for additional storage would be nice, and the ability to use a docking station is very desirable.

While I'm not ruling out the fruit flavored options, I don't think they have anything that meets my criteria . . . but then again I'm not sure anyone else does either. The ThinkPad T440p comes close, but it appears to max out at 16GB RAM and comes in at 4.7lb with the 6 cell battery. Are there other options? I'm not limiting myself to a specific brand, but I would prefer it to be a recognizable one.

Thanks in advance!
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Old Dec 7, 2013 | 11:01 am
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Have you looked at the new MBP's? I have a 13" that bootcamps windows and mavericks. Only 16GB of RAM, but I can easily run multiple Linux and Windows VMs (7, 8, and Linux) that has a slower i7 than the 15". The PCIe flash drive and 16GB is plenty for most of what I do. My 'docking station' is just a single thunderbolt (mini-display) cable and power adapter.

The 440s and 430s are pretty good.. .but if you need greater than 14" and that much internal guts, it's probably not gonna happen at the weight you want.
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Old Dec 7, 2013 | 11:05 am
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I think the 32GB requirement is going to have to go. It seems like you need 4 DIMM slots, which would be very difficult in the weight/frame requirements you would like.

May want to look at the Dell Precision M3800 (as recommended by nkedel.
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Old Dec 7, 2013 | 11:39 am
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Thanks, denverhockeyguy and pseudoswede. Is the 16GB limit (i.e. 2x8GB DIMMs) I see on pretty much every laptop because that's the most that can be supported by the DIMM architecture, or is it simply that no one makes 16GB DIMMs (for 2x16GB = 32GB)?

And I understand that 16GB should be enough for my needs, but I tend to keep my laptops a long time and I'm not sure the same will be true a couple of years from now.

I haven't ruled out a MBP, but it would mean relicensing some software for that platform . . . adding to the cost.

The Dell Precision looks pretty awesome, except for the 16GB limitation. It's still a hair over 4lbs, but the size of the display may make it worthwhile
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Old Dec 7, 2013 | 11:51 am
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Originally Posted by Dodge DeBoulet
Is the 16GB limit (i.e. 2x8GB DIMMs) I see on pretty much every laptop because that's the most that can be supported by the DIMM architecture, or is it simply that no one makes 16GB DIMMs (for 2x16GB = 32GB)?
Looks like the former in SODIMM format. You can't even buy desktop DDR3 RAM greater than 8GB; 16GB DIMMs are only available for servers (and they're eye-watering expensive). It could potentially appear when DDR4 is released to mainstream, but it could take a few years.
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Old Dec 8, 2013 | 12:18 pm
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Originally Posted by Dodge DeBoulet
Ideally, I'd like to get to 32GB of RAM to support up to 6 or 7 WinXP, Win64 7/8/8.1, Ubuntu/RedHat/Centos Virtual Machines; an i7-class processor, and at least a 1080px vertical resolution with a minimum 14" screen. And of course I want it to weigh 4lbs or less
(edit to add while writing: by "i7-class processor" I assume you mean a quad-core i7. They do sell some dual-core i7 processors, which are really not appreciably faster than the dual-core i5s. If you can live with a dual-core, there will be a few more options than what I outline.)

Can't be done. The lightest you're going to get with 32gb is around 5lbs on a 15" model with the Lenovo W540.

If you can go down to 16GB, there are a several more options, but none all that light, without going very different.

I don't care so much about the hard drive, as I'll likely replace it with an SSD if it doesn't already come with one. Something like an ultrabay for additional storage would be nice, and the ability to use a docking station is very desirable.
Lenovo W540 is the only option I'm aware of with all of what you want (if a bit heavy.)

Lenovo W530 or Dell M4700 or M4800 all come close, even heavier, though. The two Dells have semi-fixed bays (although you can swap them if you're comfortable opening the machine) and the W530 and M4700 are last-generation Ivy Bridge processors.

All of them are dockable.

All of the current-generation ones (and the M4700) can already take two SSDs or an SSD+a spinny disk, as they have mSATA bays (full-size on the Dells, smaller NGFF on the Lenovo W540) ... so if the goal is just storage space and not an actual optical drive you may not care about the bay anymore.

The ThinkPad T440p comes close, but it appears to max out at 16GB RAM and comes in at 4.7lb with the 6 cell battery. Are there other options? I'm not limiting myself to a specific brand, but I would prefer it to be a recognizable one.
If you can drop to 16GB of RAM (same limitation on the fruit-flavored option) from a general business manufacturer, you have several options.

From a weight perspective, if you need docking, the T440p is probably the best. I'm pretty sure it has a mSATA option so you can get an mSATA card as the boot drive and then use the main drive for a larger slower drive (whether SSD or spinny.)

If it needs to be recognizable, I'd guess the Galago Ultrapro is out:
https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/galu1

(also doesn't officially support Windows, but looks pretty sweet, and if I were buying it as purely a work machine I'd probably keep to Linux... no big GPU for my personal vice of gaming.)

There are also Dell (E6530, E654) and HP (I forget) 15" options with a quad-core CPU, docking, and 16gb max although they are about as heavy as the Lenovo W530.

Originally Posted by pseudoswede
I think the 32GB requirement is going to have to go. It seems like you need 4 DIMM slots, which would be very difficult in the weight/frame requirements you would like.
Yeah; the only 32GB-capable machines are tanks. The Lenovo W530 was by the lightest 15" one from the prior generation, the W540 is supposed to be the lightest from this one although we haven't gotten it in.

There may be a "thin" 17"+ model which was no heavier than the W530, although once you get to a screen that big I've found one gets portability issues just from the footprint.

May want to look at the Dell Precision M3800 (as recommended by nkedel.
Or the new XPS 15 Touch; same thing sold through the Home line, only difference is the GPU (no ISV-certified drivers, slightly higher clock, on the XPS 15).

It's the closest thing from a PC manufacturer to the rMBP 15. Down side is the price is comparable (the one I ordered was about $2450) and they are backordered (was originally expecting mine this coming week, the ship date got pushed out about a week.)

Originally Posted by Dodge DeBoulet
Thanks, denverhockeyguy and pseudoswede. Is the 16GB limit (i.e. 2x8GB DIMMs) I see on pretty much every laptop because that's the most that can be supported by the DIMM architecture, or is it simply that no one makes 16GB DIMMs (for 2x16GB = 32GB)?
As far as I can tell, both from a friend at Micron (albeit second-hand as the guy I know who works there does flash-related stuff, not DRAM) and from trying to read JEDEC specs myself (but I am not an electrical engineer, I am a software guy)... 8gb is the maximum from unbuffered DIMMs on DDR3.

(Registered DIMMs go up to 32gb on DDR3, but AFAICT those are normally used in servers, and they are only made full-size for desktops.)

16GB laptop DIMMs should be coming in a year or two along with DDR4 memory. So far there is no definite word on whether that will be a possibility with Broadwell (the 2014 Intel Core-i 5th-generation CPUs) or whether we will have to wait for Sky Lake (the 2015 Intel CPUs; not clear if they'll keep the Core-i branding for those) but currently I am betting on Sky Lake.

(There is some definite word that DDR4 will be available mid-2014 on some servers and some workstations-class desktops, but whether that translates to anything on the laptop or conventional desktop side is beyond me.)

And I understand that 16GB should be enough for my needs, but I tend to keep my laptops a long time and I'm not sure the same will be true a couple of years from now.
My advice? Spend a little less this time, and keep the money you save for your next machine. Given that you're coming from a T400, you should be able to get a very nice machine that outperforms it substantially for under $1000 (possibly a little under $800) and compared to the rMBP 15 or something like one of the workstation replacements you are paying less than half (maybe around 1/3).

Dell Outlet is a good place to start: http://www.dell.com/us/dfb/p/?cs=28&...28&lid=4668286 -- I got a refurb quad-core E6430 (my present main system) there for about $1000, a year ago.

(eta) Or for a really cheap high-powered new one, http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops...-series/y410p/ ($749, quad core, I can forgive a lot for that.

Keep what you save in the bank for a year, and reassess then.

If you really have to upgrade all the way now, then either the Dell M3800 or the Lenovo W540 would be my call, depending on which aspect you want to sacrifice on... W540 having all the tech, but being 1.5lbs too heavy and the Dell being especially slim and portable, but less expandable.

For that matter, given the cost of a truly maxed-out W540 or M3800, you might look at the W530 -- 90% of what you want, and the base model at $1250 is about half the cost of the maxed-out M3800:
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops...w-series/w530/

(eta: It also looks like you can't do custom configurations of W540 on the Lenovo website yet, and my employer is still waiting on Lenovo to actually get one in. CDW does seem to have SOME configurations of them orderable, with a 10+ day lead time.)

The Dell Precision looks pretty awesome, except for the 16GB limitation. It's still a hair over 4lbs, but the size of the display may make it worthwhile
To get the quad-core processors, you're at 15" on pretty much every machine of this generation except the Lenovo T440p. On the last generation, Dell and HP offered quad-core 14" machines (Lenovo didn't) but they were full-thickness, 5.5lb+ models.

Originally Posted by pseudoswede
Looks like the former in SODIMM format. You can't even buy desktop DDR3 RAM greater than 8GB; 16GB DIMMs are only available for servers (and they're eye-watering expensive). It could potentially appear when DDR4 is released to mainstream, but it could take a few years.
I'd expect them to be available (at some price, possibly obscene) pretty much day one with DDR4, but that could be 18 months out if it's on Sky Lake for laptops.
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Old Dec 8, 2013 | 8:22 pm
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Again, if you can go with 16GB RAM...

Shut up and take my money
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Old Dec 8, 2013 | 8:51 pm
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Originally Posted by pseudoswede
Again, if you can go with 16GB RAM...

Shut up and take my money
Nice. 760M is a pretty big GPU.

Rather pricier, but for something very thin, light, and powerful and with a US warranty (no second drive, though, and same 16gb limit):
http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade/
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Old Dec 8, 2013 | 9:56 pm
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Originally Posted by nkedel
Nice. 760M is a pretty big GPU.
Not sure if OP would need that kind of GPU power for VM?

Rather pricier, but for something very thin, light, and powerful and with a US warranty (no second drive, though, and same 16gb limit):
http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade/
Tut-tut... 1600x900 screen.
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