gobluetwo

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/07/30...ies/index.html

YYZC2

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A341 Safari/528.16)

That AFA person has been using that line for years. It's a good soundbite, but I wish she would get some new material.

NYC96

Like that line................."I fly as much as you do"

SFflyer123

I know it's not as glamourous as it used to be. But that is no excuse to be mean-spirited or unpleasant to passengers. Ultimately, the FA chose that job. Nobody is pointing a gun to their head saying that they must be an FA. It is ultimately their decision to choose this occupation. If they chose it freely, then they should either do it and not be mean to people, or choose another profession.

icurhere2

If she's still learning to use handcuffs after many years, there's a problem larger than the soundbite.

Not to get into OMNI/PR territory, but it appears to me that individuals in heavily-unionized jobs sometimes have the mentality that there should be lifetime employment and the industry should never change during their employment.

Ivan Grozny

Ditto re: OMNI/PR!
However the commitment for commitment model was an essential part of the transformation of Japan from first a pseudo-medieval country (first half of 19th C) to a industrialised nation (by WW2), and from a bombed out hulk (post WW2) to a modern economic superpower (by the 1980's).
Now that is less common in Japan, and look at the state that has left them in!

Unions/staff associations only exist because of the uneven power relationship between employers and employees. (For extreme cases, read Marx, who was addressing the issues of exploited workers in Germany).
There was a recent case in Britain of companies using illegal blacklists of employees - so it is only equitable for employees to also use semi-legal methods, like a strike or work-to-rule, to advance their ends.
In Britain, at least, the law reflects these tensions, and that is part of why there has never been a proper, lasting, revolution here (tried it in the mid-17th C, but didn't like it!).
The biggest example of recent union power in Britain is that Tony Blair's rise to power was largely funded by unionised workers, while the main (currently) opposition party is primarily funded by big business. (Many forum readers probably don't remember Harold Wilson and James Callaghan, who were similarly funded, as have been all "Labour" British prime ministers).
Some countries have historically failed to reflect these tensions, perhaps most notably Russia, leading to serious consequences.


The "capitalist" model of business is also fundamentally undemocratic (according to Lenin) - and this is magnified in the case of multi-nationals, so unions can also appeal to people who want more democracy than ticking a box every four or five years.
France (very unionised!) always seems to muddle along OK, while Germany has a large amount of worker participation in Volkswagen.
There are also specific, odd, examples like the John Lewis chain of stores in Britain, where all regular employees (including the sales assistants!) are technically junior partners.
Other companies issue meaningful amounts of shares to employees as part of a long-term rewards basis.
These models address both the democratic deficit of capitalism, whilst making the link in the employee's mind about the success of the company being tied to the success of the employee.


Some workers were told they had a job for life, and were told they couldn't expect the same pay as people who didn't. When they are told they now don't have a job for life, the first thing they do is ask for a pay rise (to make up for those they lost when they did have a job for life).

For all those who say, if you don't like your job, then leave, I would remind them of a worse (for an employer) alternative - the employee remains, and delivers poor service (which costs the company more in the long run!). The employer changed the "rules", and now the employee is doing likewise! Quid pro quo. Also remember that jobs can be more than just somewhere to go - for many people the economic angle is strong, and many people have a good part of their social networks at work - so leaving a job is much more than just a "satisfaction" decision.
High staff turnover also dramatically increases training costs, and reduces the experience base, but that doesn't always show up in a business model based on short-term gain (banks, anyone!).

Unions are a long-term commitment, while the current problems of business are blamed on short-termism.

As a final note, it was Freud who said that a bit of whingeing is both healthy and normal in people with nothing wrong with them, so perhaps the Flight Attendant's remarks should just produce a little smile on our lips, and be left at that

Make up your own minds

MiamiAirport Formerly NY George

This industry has suffered from a build up of over capacity that began in the early 1990s and took off towards the end of that decade with the Internet and the expansion of low cost carriers. The legacy airlines feeling that they could not lose market share would always price with lccs even when such action would mean losses. While not a real good recipe for a successful business, this until recently allowed for job growth in the airlines.

However, over capacity means that airlines, particularly ones with expensive and massive hubs and FF programs to support, have needed to deeply cut costs in order to survive. And as usual its not the C level executives that bears the brunt of cost cutting, its the front line workers. Also during the past twenty years there is no doubt that our society has become ruder and cruder and air travel tends to bring this behavior out in triplicate. But all things considered, the job still has perks albeit many FAs may find themselves soon on an unemployment line. Hopefully, FAs also appreciate the paxs that go out of their way to be polite and accomodating remembering a time when they were in a customer service job and knew what people could be like (like what I went through years ago as an assistant and then bank branch manager.)

I have always contended that anyone that goes into this profession for the travel will eventually be dissappointed. The demands of the job are too much that a few hours at the pool at the Sheraton is not worth it unless you have a passion for serving people.

Ivan Grozny

To take a different industry - look at cars.
GM vs. Toyota.
Most dollars in revenue vs. Most cars sold.
The two biggies.

GM has serious problems (!)
Toyota does not.

Yet both are unionised (Toyota in the US is not very unionised, but most of their cars are not made in the US!!) , and pretty much expected to provide a "job for life" (again excluding Toyota in the US, where only a very small part of their world-wide production takes place - they manufacture in the US for marketing purposes and to avoid import tariffs).

The difference is in the management and the level of worker participation.
Perhaps airlines need to look at the "long-term" and "partnership" models of Toyota, and stop looking at the "short-term" and "boss/worker" models of GM.

As a footnote:
I always try to be polite to flight attendants, regardless of whether I am in the "big seats" at the front, or "cattle class" behind the curtain - and I have always received politeness in return.
My happiness keeps their planes full, and their happiness keeps me coming back.
Quid Pro Quo.

Some passengers are a (insert bad words as required), and quite frankly deserve nothing more than contempt from the FAs.

So be a better passenger next time you all fly, and see if the staff seem better as well

MisterNice

A lotta things change in 50 years. As for the handcuff thing I doubt if more than 1 FA outta 100,000 FA puts handcuffs on anyone other than their BF or GF.

MisterNice

Gargoyle

Good thing this isn't OMNI, or someone would reply with the obligatory "useless without photos" comment.

Ivan Grozny

Sadly, as a regular reader of the British press, it would appear that some Brits like to soak up far too much booze before and during the flight. Excessive alcohol consumption seems to becoming widespread in Britain, with the Government regularly issueing statements about it.
The fact that restraints ("hadcuffs") are not used more often is a testament to the diplomacy and skill of the FAs.

Ivan Grozny

For my two cents worth on pricing, see here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/newss...-airlines.html
(particularly #5)

Gaucho100K

Wirelessly posted (Nokia N97 / Palm TX: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; PalmSource/Palm-D050; Blazer/4.3) 16;320x448)

Interesting read....

Ivan Grozny

Gaucho100K:
OT: I like your signature line.
Very good indeed!

NYC96

You're forgetting the opposite side of the coin here, George. Many F/A's enjoy the profession because it allows them to build their schedule, where they want to fly to, and with some, drop trips to either work, for example: eight days a month or add trips to supplement their pay. Great options for this profession.