UA_Flyer

Is Airbus putting too many eggs in EK's basket? 43 A380 (include 2 freighters) firm orders and 10 ptions, and now the 50 A350.

http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuot...8571200_newsml

tcook052

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427810

So, yes, seems EK firmly in the Airbus camp, which comes as little surprise given they've already signed on for the A380. That's OK, maybe Boeing can b*tch about it lots like Airbus did when AI opted for the 787 recently...

tcook052

http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=90829

DUBAI - DUBAI International Airport, the region's aviation hub, will achieve another milestone next year. It will be the first airport in the Middle East to welcome the world's largest passenger aircraft A380 in later half of 2006 while the other regional airports in Abu Dhabi, Doha and Jeddah could be able to host the mammoth aircraft in 2008.

According to a study conducted by the Khaleej Times, Riyad and Tel Aviv airports are the other two airports in the region that will join the A380 hosting club in the year 2010 when approximately 60 airports worldwide will be able to welcome the double-decker superjumbo unveiled by the Airbus at its headquarters in southern France earlier this year.

SEA_Tigger

Airbus had to have this order (since it looks like Qatar is leaning towards the 787) as it gives the green light for Airbus to put the plane into production. If they win the Gulf Air order, as well, that would be even better for them.

EK is still a big Boeing player in the 777 market, and they may yet place orders for 777-200LRs to supplement or supplant their A345s since that model is a poor performer.

tcook052

http://www.deepikaglobal.com/ENG3_su...ewscode=102338

Dubai, May 9 (UNI) Dubai, which has the world's fastest-growing airport with annual traffic of 22 million passengers that is growing at a 20 per cent, would see its national carrier Emirates adding a new plane every month to its fleet for the next eight years.

UA_Flyer

It appears EK has publicly denied the news reports. It is still considering the 787 as well as 772LR.

SEA_Tigger

Could be a ploy to get both sides to "renegotiate" their respective offers.

Boeing will be desperate to get EK to choose the 787 and put a stake in the A350, as well as get them to replace their A345s with 772LRs, putting a stake in that program, too.

Airbus will be desperate to get EK to choose the A350 to show that the program has a following, and they could really use some more A345 sales after the disappointing performance of the plane and the fact that some operators (AC and I bet SQ) are dumping theirs for 772LRs while other operators have chosen the 772LR over the A345 (AI and possibly QF).

Either way, EK is going to get a very sweet deal on this order, whichever way it goes.

YVR Cockroach

I'd say if Airbus does go ahead with the A350, it'd be good for Boeing. At the cost of a few sales, the 787 will be competing against an inferior product which will also serve to tie up AI's engineering and financial resources from developng anything else.

SEA_Tigger

True, but if they can force Airbus to abandon the A350 in it's current form and force it to start fresh, that delays them even more and allows Boeing more lead time for the replacement of the 737, which would allow the 787 to beat up on the A330 and then, just as Airbus is trying to get an answer to the A350 out the hangar, Boeing can beat up on the A318-A321 for a few years while Airbus has to organize a response to it.

And if the WTO becomes the final arbiter of the US/EU dispute, Airbus will lose launch aid for the A350 and the A318-321NG, which will hurt them even more in terms of how quickly they can respond.

Threy

Inferior product, where is all the speculation coming from ???

An A 345 is definitely cheaper to operate than a comparable 777 since the B Bird is simply way too expensive, it is only about saving fuel, if you pay significantly more and Boeing cannot afford to give away up all those planes more or less for free like they did with Ryanair and their 737

A 345 as well as B 772LR were produced completely away from any serious market demand and the poor sales are showing it already, nobody needs a plane flying nonstop for 9000 miles, cause you cannot make any $$$ on those routes....

SEA_Tigger

It's not speculation, it's hard data. The A345 has not met the performance targets for passengers and cargo that Airbus said it would since it has entered service. That is why airlines like SQ and EK operate them in such "boutique" configs as they trade passengers for cargo (since cargo makes more money per square foot) and then charge those passengers more to try and make it up.


You have it backwards. Airbus is the one who gave their planes away (thanks to having the taxpayers of Germany, France, Spain, and Britain to cover the shortfalls). Now that Airbus is a public company, answerable to shareholders and no longer sucking off the EU teet, they have had to raise their prices and are now losing orders left and right to a leaner Boeing, whom has finally come to their senses and realized better to sell 100 planes at $1 million profit a piece then one plane at $50 million profit.

Not to mention Boeing's sales team studied the fantastic job Airbus' sales team has done, then applied the same techniques, and this has paid off with hundreds of orders the past few months.

And the 777 line is cheaper to operate then the A340 line, as well as carrying more passengers and cargo. That is why it outsells the A340 seven planes to three.


You can't with an A345, because it cannot carry a full load of passengers and cargo. You have to sacrifice one or the other. A 777-200LR will allow you to do both, which is why now that it has entered flight testing, and coupled with the better then expected performance from the 777-300ER, airlines are ordering it now - including AC which chose it to replace their A345s, just as SQ will most certainly do and EK is looking towards doing, as well.

atlantic

I agree Airbus should give up and close shop: A345 sucks, A350 sucks, A380 no demand for such a big airliner... what were they thinking?

LAX

Hey, if EK is so satisfied with its fleet of Airbus products that it will order another 50 or so A350, it can pick up AC's (and possibly SQ's) nearly new A345's when AC/SQ start getting their new Boeing replacements!! That will be an even sweeter deal.

LAX

SEA_Tigger

I am hoping you are being sarcastic, because it truly is not that way.

Even with the deep discounts Airbus used in the early days to garner sales, if the product truly was junk, nobody would have bought it. I am sure Ilyushin offers the IL-96 for pretty cheap, but you don't see US, European, or Asian carriers rushing out to buy them.

Airbus makes a solid product across their entire line. The A330 whoops the B767 something fierce, which is why it outsells it 8:2. In reverse, the B777 whomps on the A340, and outsells it 7:3. The 737NG is the better plane from a performance and efficiency standpoint, but the A318-A321 are more comfortable from a passenger experience (wider seats, quieter cabin), which is why both sell very well.

The A380 is in many ways a bigger risk then the 747, and the 747 was a huge risk. But just as Boeing knew that making travel cheaper would mean more people would travel, Airbus is hoping that the A380 will make travel cheaper to both allow more people to travel and allow the airlines to survive and prosper on those cheaper fares.

The A350 is not a "bad" plane. It just doesn't have the advantages an all-new design like the 787 does. Afterall, the B767 is not a "bad" plane, but Airbus had a decade to see everything that airlines did not like about the B767 and addressed them in the A330, making it a "better" plane, just as the 787 is a "better" plane then the A350.