Sunami - Sri Lanka, India, Thailand, Sumatra - 26 Dec 04
Dec 28, 2004, 8:37 pm
#76
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Location: Canada
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Before We Start Casting Blame
While it is tempting to start blaming governments for ignoring warnings, an article in the NYTimes today explained that not every marine earthquake generates a tsunami. For this to happen, the earthquake has to lift the ocean floor, thus displacing the water that causes the huge wave. Not every earthquake does this, and what's more even the Pacific centre experts admit that predicting just which quake will do so is extremely difficult. Predicting earthquakes, as those living on the San Andreas fault will attest, is a looong way from being an exact science.
What's more, the Pacific centre acknowledged that initially they themselves didn't expect this tsunami to be as widespread as it was. Only after damage reports from Sri Lanka began coming in did they realize the full magnitude of the earthquake. Originally they thought it was a Richter 8, not a 9 - i.e. they were off by a factor of 10. The researchers explained that their data is mainly from the Pacific basin, and can't necessarily be extrapolated to the Indian Basin. Geological events are apparently very complex; even if it can be predicted *where* one will happen, predicting precisely *when* one will happen, or with what intensity, is extremely difficult. Remember, the earth works on geologic time, which is measured in much larger units than humans usually operate in. Consider, too, that the experts still have great trouble predicting the intensity of atmospheric events like hurricanes, which occur much more frequently than earthquakes.
Now is the time for patience and the directing of energy to productive solutions, not easy to muster, I realize, as emotions run high at such difficult and tragic times.
What's more, the Pacific centre acknowledged that initially they themselves didn't expect this tsunami to be as widespread as it was. Only after damage reports from Sri Lanka began coming in did they realize the full magnitude of the earthquake. Originally they thought it was a Richter 8, not a 9 - i.e. they were off by a factor of 10. The researchers explained that their data is mainly from the Pacific basin, and can't necessarily be extrapolated to the Indian Basin. Geological events are apparently very complex; even if it can be predicted *where* one will happen, predicting precisely *when* one will happen, or with what intensity, is extremely difficult. Remember, the earth works on geologic time, which is measured in much larger units than humans usually operate in. Consider, too, that the experts still have great trouble predicting the intensity of atmospheric events like hurricanes, which occur much more frequently than earthquakes.
Now is the time for patience and the directing of energy to productive solutions, not easy to muster, I realize, as emotions run high at such difficult and tragic times.
Last edited by simpleflyer; Dec 28, 2004 at 8:43 pm Reason: clarity
Dec 28, 2004, 10:09 pm
#77
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Wow - just saw a photo of Patong Beach Bungalows, where I stayed just three weeks ago on my first visit to Phuket.
Dec 28, 2004, 10:20 pm
#78
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Location: San Francisco, CA, US
Posts: 235
Aceh, Indonesia
Some news have been trickling from Aceh area, especially Meulaboh and other parts of Sumatra's west coast. Hopefully more news from those area gets into more mainstream media.
Up to 10,000 (maybe much more) estimated died in Meulaboh, Aceh, Indonesia. It's a town nearest to the epicenter, reportedly 80% of the buildings are damaged. Meulaboh town is still covered with water, the only available method of transportation is by helicopter only, the airport's runway is damaged. So far, Indonesian's Health ministry reported 27,000 died and rising in Aceh and North Sumatra.
Up to 10,000 (maybe much more) estimated died in Meulaboh, Aceh, Indonesia. It's a town nearest to the epicenter, reportedly 80% of the buildings are damaged. Meulaboh town is still covered with water, the only available method of transportation is by helicopter only, the airport's runway is damaged. So far, Indonesian's Health ministry reported 27,000 died and rising in Aceh and North Sumatra.
Dec 28, 2004, 11:15 pm
#79
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BBC estimate 50,000 now dead
Asia earthquake toll still rising
Health experts fear disease could double the death toll
The death toll from the undersea quake in southern Asia is continuing to rise relentlessly as relief teams reach outlying towns and more bodies wash up.
The known toll stands above 50,000 but estimates suggest thousands more are dead, many of them children.
Two US warships carrying some 15,000 soldiers and cargo aircraft with supplies are en route to the region, as part of a massive global relief effort.
The UN has warned disease could double the death toll from Sunday's quake.
The 9.0 magnitude earthquake happened just off the coast of the large Indonesian island of Sumatra, and set off huge tsunami waves that reached as far as Africa.
Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India and Thailand are among the countries worst hit.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4131437.stm
Health experts fear disease could double the death toll
The death toll from the undersea quake in southern Asia is continuing to rise relentlessly as relief teams reach outlying towns and more bodies wash up.
The known toll stands above 50,000 but estimates suggest thousands more are dead, many of them children.
Two US warships carrying some 15,000 soldiers and cargo aircraft with supplies are en route to the region, as part of a massive global relief effort.
The UN has warned disease could double the death toll from Sunday's quake.
The 9.0 magnitude earthquake happened just off the coast of the large Indonesian island of Sumatra, and set off huge tsunami waves that reached as far as Africa.
Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India and Thailand are among the countries worst hit.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4131437.stm
Dec 29, 2004, 8:41 am
#80
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Originally Posted by pbiflyer
I am sorry, but I would have to disagree with you. While I have never met the man, his position that others' lives are not as valuable as his, including innocent children who had no choice of their lot in life, shows his incredible lack of sensitivity, as well as many other aspects of his life which I cannot mention because I will be banned.
The responses to his postings show that people have let their emotions get in the way of their logic and reading comprehension. That is sad.
Dec 29, 2004, 8:52 am
#81
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Originally Posted by Markie
The known toll stands above 50,000 but estimates suggest thousands more are dead...
Dec 29, 2004, 1:55 pm
#83
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Originally Posted by simpleflyer
What's more, the Pacific centre acknowledged that initially they themselves didn't expect this tsunami to be as widespread as it was. Only after damage reports from Sri Lanka began coming in did they realize the full magnitude of the earthquake. Originally they thought it was a Richter 8, not a 9 - i.e. they were off by a factor of 10.
If I recall correctly, the Richter scale means that an 8.1 earthquake is actually 10 times stronger than an 8.0 earthquake and an 8.2 earthquake would be 100 times stronger than an 8.0. This means that a 9.0 earthquake is actually 100 billion times stronger than an 8.0 earthquake. Considering that USGS reports claim that 700 miles of ocean floor were lifted 50 feet due to the earthquake, this is actually believable.
So the error in first believing the earthquake was 8.0 versus 9.0 would be a huuuuuge mistake. But I though I read that they first thought it was 8.5 or 8.9 and then revised it to a 9.0. If this is correct, the mistake would have been very big but not as big as off by a factor of 100 billion.
Dec 29, 2004, 2:30 pm
#84
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If I recall correctly, the Richter scale means that an 8.1 earthquake is actually 10 times stronger than an 8.0 earthquake and an 8.2 earthquake would be 100 times stronger than an 8.0. This means that a 9.0 earthquake is actually 100 billion times stronger than an 8.0 earthquake. Considering that USGS reports claim that 700 miles of ocean floor were lifted 50 feet due to the earthquake, this is actually believable.
One point's difference on the Richter scale reflects a difference in seismic wave amplitude of about a factor of 10, and a difference in energy yield of about 32x.
Last edited by eric_packer; Dec 29, 2004 at 2:33 pm
Dec 29, 2004, 3:27 pm
#85
Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA, US
Posts: 235
Meulaboh, Calang in West Acah decimated
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detail...230.A01&irec=4
Meulaboh, Calang in West Acah decimated
The Jakarta Post, Jakarta
More than 8,000 people are confirmed dead in Meulaboh in West Aceh and the Aceh Jaya town of Calang and other places along a stretch of the western coastline of Aceh as the Navy reached the area on Wednesday to distribute food and water.
...
The highest death toll from the western coastline will likely come from Calang and Meulaboh, where about 80 percent of the town has been totally destroyed.
...
Meanwhile, the head of the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs for Indonesia, Michael Elmquist, gave a worse prediction saying that Meulaboh might have had 40,000 deaths.
...
Meulaboh, Calang in West Acah decimated
The Jakarta Post, Jakarta
More than 8,000 people are confirmed dead in Meulaboh in West Aceh and the Aceh Jaya town of Calang and other places along a stretch of the western coastline of Aceh as the Navy reached the area on Wednesday to distribute food and water.
...
The highest death toll from the western coastline will likely come from Calang and Meulaboh, where about 80 percent of the town has been totally destroyed.
...
Meanwhile, the head of the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs for Indonesia, Michael Elmquist, gave a worse prediction saying that Meulaboh might have had 40,000 deaths.
...
Dec 29, 2004, 8:35 pm
#86
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Originally Posted by PresRDC
And you reach this conclusion from what 747-437B wrote, how?
The responses to his postings show that people have let their emotions get in the way of their logic and reading comprehension. That is sad.
The responses to his postings show that people have let their emotions get in the way of their logic and reading comprehension. That is sad.
Originally Posted by 747-437B
The end result of this will be that my business suffers due to lack of support services from the region AND my taxes increase to subsidize the relief efforts.
And let's see, where else might I have reached this conclusion. Oh yeah, from him. Again, in his own words:
Originally Posted by 747-437B
Human life in India is a cheap commodity. Sad as it may be for the families of the victims, the country as a whole could stand to benefit from natural disasters like this
That you can even defend his words is what is truly sad.
Dec 30, 2004, 12:09 am
#87
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Wave toll 'could exceed 100,000'
Wave toll 'could exceed 100,000'
The true scale of the disaster may never be known
The number of dead from Sunday's Indian Ocean killer waves is likely to spiral above 100,000, the Red Cross has said.
Senior agency official Peter Rees said he thought the toll would rise sharply when victims are counted on India's remote Andaman and Nicobar islands.
About 77,000 people have been confirmed killed in the earthquake and waves.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4132725.stm
(I am trying to get this back on topic everyone. The rest is pure diversion)
The true scale of the disaster may never be known
The number of dead from Sunday's Indian Ocean killer waves is likely to spiral above 100,000, the Red Cross has said.
Senior agency official Peter Rees said he thought the toll would rise sharply when victims are counted on India's remote Andaman and Nicobar islands.
About 77,000 people have been confirmed killed in the earthquake and waves.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4132725.stm
(I am trying to get this back on topic everyone. The rest is pure diversion)
Dec 30, 2004, 12:15 am
#88
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
I have met B747 and found him to be a very sensitive and thoughtful person. He is merely pointing out the afect of tis disaster and the lessons to be learnt from it by the Governments (States and Central) of India. I am sorry some of you have taken such offense at his posts, but belive me he is not insensitive at all.
Dec 30, 2004, 5:09 am
#89
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT USA
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Airlines Face 20-40% Cancellations
The Business Times Singapore
(NEW DELHI) Fully booked for year-end holidays, foreign and domestic airlines in tsunami-hit countries, particularly India, are seeing 20-40 per cent cancellations as travellers re-chart plans in the wake of the killer waves, according to Indo-Asian News Service.
'There are around 20-40 per cent cancellations reported by airlines for inbound and more for outbound travel at what is absolutely the peak time for destinations in coastal regions,' said Karun Budhraja, deputy general manager of marketing communications for Amadeus India.
___________________
Robbers Disguised as Police Loot Hotel Safes and Steal Aid
by MARGARET NEIGHBOUR
The Scotsman Article
Thieves pretending to be police and rescue workers are preying on southern Thailand’s Khao Lak beach, witnesses claimed yesterday.
The robbers were said to be emptying tourist luggage, looting hotel safeboxes and robbing villagers on the beach north of Phuket island, the worst-hit place in Thailand.
Some locals blamed Burmese fishermen who crew many of the boats in Thailand’s vast fishing fleet .
"We’ve been hit by both natural disaster and thugs," said the owner of one of the dozens of resorts and hotels on the beach. "Some pretended to be police and walked inside some hotels and broke open safeboxes for guests.
"Money was taken from tourists’ bags and their baggage was left open with nothing inside."
"Please send police here," pleaded an elderly woman on Khao Lak. "All the food and drink I’ve received from the aid workers have been taken away by those fishermen."
Widespread looting was taking place in Phuket, Phi Phi Island and the nearby province of Phang Nga. Nine people were arrested for stealing in disaster-hit areas.
____________________________
Desperate Search by Mobile Phones for Missing Irish Tourists
Belfast Telegraph Article
By Martha Kearns, Frank Khan and Anita Whooley
30 December 2004
A desperate search using mobile phone tracking was mounted last night to trace Irish people missing in the worst disaster of modern times in which the death toll could now surpass 100,000.
Phone companies O2 and Vodafone were working with the Republic's Department of Foreign Affairs as the search intensified and fears mounted for two missing Irish women.
Foreign Affairs Minister Dermot Ahern said his department was trying to trace the last calls made by up to 20 Irish people still unaccounted for in the disaster zone.
"We are using every device possible to try and trace people. Our people on the ground - particularly in Sri Lanka and Phuket, Thailand - are checking out as much as they can all of the hospitals and other areas where perhaps people might be," he said last night.
_________________________________
Tycoons, Travelers Around the World Give to Help Tsunami Victims
the star online article
LONDON (AP) - People around the world pitched in Wednesday to help the millions left homeless and destitute by the Indian Ocean tsunamis, donating money, clothes, blood and even air miles to ferry doctors to the disaster scene.
Villagers in rural England, Hong Kong tycoons and Singapore cab drivers contributed to the aid effort as the death toll rose again to some 77,000 on Wednesday.
Thousands more were missing while hunger and disease threatened to claim tens of thousands more lives, according to the U.N. health agency.
In the village of Hatfield Broad Oak, 35 miles (55 kilometers) northeast of London, residents were collecting clothes and money for the earthquake victims.
"We are asking for children's clothes in particular,'' said Joan Miller, who works at the village Post Office Stores, where the Sri Lankan-born owner is coordinating the collection.
"People just feel they need to do something.''
The Business Times Singapore
(NEW DELHI) Fully booked for year-end holidays, foreign and domestic airlines in tsunami-hit countries, particularly India, are seeing 20-40 per cent cancellations as travellers re-chart plans in the wake of the killer waves, according to Indo-Asian News Service.
'There are around 20-40 per cent cancellations reported by airlines for inbound and more for outbound travel at what is absolutely the peak time for destinations in coastal regions,' said Karun Budhraja, deputy general manager of marketing communications for Amadeus India.
___________________
Robbers Disguised as Police Loot Hotel Safes and Steal Aid
by MARGARET NEIGHBOUR
The Scotsman Article
Thieves pretending to be police and rescue workers are preying on southern Thailand’s Khao Lak beach, witnesses claimed yesterday.
The robbers were said to be emptying tourist luggage, looting hotel safeboxes and robbing villagers on the beach north of Phuket island, the worst-hit place in Thailand.
Some locals blamed Burmese fishermen who crew many of the boats in Thailand’s vast fishing fleet .
"We’ve been hit by both natural disaster and thugs," said the owner of one of the dozens of resorts and hotels on the beach. "Some pretended to be police and walked inside some hotels and broke open safeboxes for guests.
"Money was taken from tourists’ bags and their baggage was left open with nothing inside."
"Please send police here," pleaded an elderly woman on Khao Lak. "All the food and drink I’ve received from the aid workers have been taken away by those fishermen."
Widespread looting was taking place in Phuket, Phi Phi Island and the nearby province of Phang Nga. Nine people were arrested for stealing in disaster-hit areas.
____________________________
Desperate Search by Mobile Phones for Missing Irish Tourists
Belfast Telegraph Article
By Martha Kearns, Frank Khan and Anita Whooley
30 December 2004
A desperate search using mobile phone tracking was mounted last night to trace Irish people missing in the worst disaster of modern times in which the death toll could now surpass 100,000.
Phone companies O2 and Vodafone were working with the Republic's Department of Foreign Affairs as the search intensified and fears mounted for two missing Irish women.
Foreign Affairs Minister Dermot Ahern said his department was trying to trace the last calls made by up to 20 Irish people still unaccounted for in the disaster zone.
"We are using every device possible to try and trace people. Our people on the ground - particularly in Sri Lanka and Phuket, Thailand - are checking out as much as they can all of the hospitals and other areas where perhaps people might be," he said last night.
_________________________________
Tycoons, Travelers Around the World Give to Help Tsunami Victims
the star online article
LONDON (AP) - People around the world pitched in Wednesday to help the millions left homeless and destitute by the Indian Ocean tsunamis, donating money, clothes, blood and even air miles to ferry doctors to the disaster scene.
Villagers in rural England, Hong Kong tycoons and Singapore cab drivers contributed to the aid effort as the death toll rose again to some 77,000 on Wednesday.
Thousands more were missing while hunger and disease threatened to claim tens of thousands more lives, according to the U.N. health agency.
In the village of Hatfield Broad Oak, 35 miles (55 kilometers) northeast of London, residents were collecting clothes and money for the earthquake victims.
"We are asking for children's clothes in particular,'' said Joan Miller, who works at the village Post Office Stores, where the Sri Lankan-born owner is coordinating the collection.
"People just feel they need to do something.''
Dec 30, 2004, 7:33 am
#90
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: DCA
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by Markie
Wave toll 'could exceed 100,000'
The true scale of the disaster may never be known
The number of dead from Sunday's Indian Ocean killer waves is likely to spiral above 100,000, the Red Cross has said.
Senior agency official Peter Rees said he thought the toll would rise sharply when victims are counted on India's remote Andaman and Nicobar islands.
About 77,000 people have been confirmed killed in the earthquake and waves.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4132725.stm
(I am trying to get this back on topic everyone. The rest is pure diversion)
The true scale of the disaster may never be known
The number of dead from Sunday's Indian Ocean killer waves is likely to spiral above 100,000, the Red Cross has said.
Senior agency official Peter Rees said he thought the toll would rise sharply when victims are counted on India's remote Andaman and Nicobar islands.
About 77,000 people have been confirmed killed in the earthquake and waves.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4132725.stm
(I am trying to get this back on topic everyone. The rest is pure diversion)