Travel Executives Stop Lurking, Start Talking to Fliers Online (WSJ 9/2/99)
Sep 1, 1999, 9:46 pm
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Travel Executives Stop Lurking, Start Talking to Fliers Online (WSJ 9/2/99)
Travel Executives Stop Lurking, Start Talking to Fliers Online (WSJ 9/2/99)
By JANE COSTELLO
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL INTERACTIVE EDITION
When Mary Jo Welsh wants to know if business travelers prefer wider seats to free drinks, she doesn't go the airport. She goes online.
Ms. Welsh is the acting manager of Northwest Airlines' WorldPerks frequent-flier program, and she's one of the first airline executives to establish an on-the-record dialogue with business travelers online.
In April, Ms. Welsh announced her presence on FlyerTalk, a frequent flier discussion group sponsored by the publishers of InsideFlyer magazine. Signing on with her initials, but no return e-mail address, Ms. Welsh uses the forum to send out queries and respond to issues ranging from the status of Northwest's labor negotiations to the mailing date of elite-level "Perk Packs."
Whenever "MJW" logs on, people respond. At 11:54 a.m. on Aug. 10, she posted a survey requesting feedback on the type of improvements to coach class business travelers would like to see on future flights. Nine minutes later, the first of 17 responses logged that day alone was posted.
In July, FlyerTalkers honored her "for not just lurking, but taking action" on behalf of discussion group members: They sent her a box of Swiss chocolates and cookies.
"I handle what I can and forward feedback to the appropriate people," says Ms. Welsh. She describes FlyerTalk participants as "skilled and thoughtful users" of the program.
Her decision to publicly identify herself to others on the Internet discussion boards "just seemed to make sense," she said.
And while Ms. Welsh has chosen to go the extra mile and identify herself to FlyerTalkers, others at Northwest log on anonymously to monitor the buzz in cyberspace.
"The Internet has pervaded enough of the company that people monitor their own discussion areas -- like safety, frequent flier[s] and aviation enthusiasts," says Northwest spokesman Jon Austin. The company employs a clipping service to monitor various discussion groups, but Mr. Austin says Northwest staff drop in from time to time to check out the newsgroups and respond to a posting, "especially if it's egregious enough."
There are myriad newsgroups, bulletin boards and chat rooms on the Net dedicated to travel, including FlyerTalk, the Usenet newsgroup rec.travel.air, Yahoo's travel bulletin boards and the discussion boards at Trip.com.
There also are sites developed by irate travelers to encourage others to air their concerns about specific airlines. Untied.com, a sounding board for United passengers with complaints, recently redesigned its site to mirror United's recently revamped home page, while a slogan on NorthWorstAir.org describes the site as being "a forum for Northwest Air customers to trade horror stories about NWA's service with an 'attitude.' "
Although these negative forums provide an opportunity for travelers to vent their frustrations, "flaming" an airline with negative comments seldom results in the rectification of a problem.
"Their credibility is weak," is how United's Mileage Plus marketing manager, Jim Davidovich, describes the consumers who voice complaints on Untied.com. But he is quick to point out that other online forums provide him with valuable insights as to how serious frequent fliers view United's marketing efforts. He's an avid reader of FlyerTalk, often logging in from home to find out the latest hot topics.
"I check it because I'm an airline junkie -- what the customer is thinking is important," he says. "I feel more confident going into meetings and being able to say, 'this is the pulse of the public.' "
But Mr. Davidovich says he has no intention of assigning a member of his staff to monitor online discussions of United, even on FlyerTalk.
"I want people to be open," he explains. "If travelers think there's someone there responding, it's no longer an open and free forum."
Pankaj Gupta, a computer programmer from Denver who is a regular participant in FlyerTalk, also is concerned that the presence of marketing representatives online sometimes has a negative effect on the quality of discussions.
"What happens is you get lots of people asking superfluous questions -- questions that should just go to customer service," he says. But Mr. Gupta acknowledges that FlyerTalk participants have an edge when it comes to problem resolution, and it makes sense for airlines and hotel chains to monitor online discussions.
"I don't see anything wrong with their being there, but they may get more than they bargained for," he says. "It shouldn't be a substitute for good customer service."
Industry executives insist that establishing an online presence isn't an open invitation for wired fliers to circumvent traditional channels when it comes to customer-service issues. Instead, they claim it's simply another way to glean customer feedback without having to wait for the results from focus groups or market research surveys.
"It's just another forum for people to communicate," says Adam Burke, senior vice president for marketing at Hilton Hotels & Resorts. He says members of Hilton's customer service staff in Dallas monitor online discussions on a regular basis, and they occasionally respond via e-mail to address specific issues or questions.
Mr. Burke also made the decision to "go live" on FlyerTalk back in April, and was honored along with Ms. Welsh for his decision to upgrade his status from lurker to participant.
"Historically, we've always been very much driven by the voice of consumers, and FlyerTalk has become an integral part of our marketing," he says. Although Mr. Burke maintains that online discussions have not had any impact on any specific program decisions to date, he says there have been comments posted that Hilton has "put into the hopper" for consideration later this year.
While cyberspace provides a virtual sounding board for consumers to vent their frustrations about travel in general, and airlines in particular, it is the caliber of discussion on the FlyerTalk board which has prompted travel industry executives identify themselves in an independent forum, outside the cozy confines of their own corporate Web sites.
Randy Petersen, editor of InsideFlyer magazine and Webflyer, the cyberspace address for FlyerTalk, says the two-year-old discussion group gets approximately 3,000 posts per week, and that the "fanatical" nature of the participants makes it an ideal place for marketing executives to interact with business fliers.
"The knowledge that's up there is quality stuff, and it happens in real time," he says. "There's nothing that happens without it being commented on."
Discussions have been so lively and informative, he says, that InsideFlyer plans to open a "Talk Mail" section of its site to highlight hot topics and discussion threads on a weekly basis.
But Mr. Petersen also notes that while marketing executives can use FlyerTalk to pick up valuable information from sophisticated fliers, airlines and hotels face the danger of promising more than they can deliver. He points out that it's not the job of airline and hotel reps to respond to countless consumer queries beyond the company's Web site.
"None of the airlines have created this dialogue with their own consumers -- they have defaulted this to us," he says.
But others in the industry are willing to track down answers to technical questions for the chance to tap into the wealth of frequent-flier knowledge available for free online.
"In the past year, there's a heightening realization that this is a mechanism we can really use," says Nan Moss, an assistant vice president for marketing at Hyatt Hotels and Resorts. In July, she assigned a "Hyatt Gold Passport Internet Concierge" to monitor FlyerTalk and respond publicly to questions and concerns about the hotel's frequent guest program.
For the moment, at least, only the FlyerTalk participants warrant this kind of personalized virtual attention. And some of them think it's about time the industry takes seriously what's being said online.
"If a company can catch these issues before they escalate, they win big," says Efrem Mallach, a FlyerTalk participant Chelmsford, Mass. "I think more companies should do the same."
Copyright © 1999 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
http://interactive.wsj.com/public/cu...ssFareMain.htm
[This message has been edited by mijne (edited 09-01-1999).]
By JANE COSTELLO
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL INTERACTIVE EDITION
When Mary Jo Welsh wants to know if business travelers prefer wider seats to free drinks, she doesn't go the airport. She goes online.
Ms. Welsh is the acting manager of Northwest Airlines' WorldPerks frequent-flier program, and she's one of the first airline executives to establish an on-the-record dialogue with business travelers online.
In April, Ms. Welsh announced her presence on FlyerTalk, a frequent flier discussion group sponsored by the publishers of InsideFlyer magazine. Signing on with her initials, but no return e-mail address, Ms. Welsh uses the forum to send out queries and respond to issues ranging from the status of Northwest's labor negotiations to the mailing date of elite-level "Perk Packs."
Whenever "MJW" logs on, people respond. At 11:54 a.m. on Aug. 10, she posted a survey requesting feedback on the type of improvements to coach class business travelers would like to see on future flights. Nine minutes later, the first of 17 responses logged that day alone was posted.
In July, FlyerTalkers honored her "for not just lurking, but taking action" on behalf of discussion group members: They sent her a box of Swiss chocolates and cookies.
"I handle what I can and forward feedback to the appropriate people," says Ms. Welsh. She describes FlyerTalk participants as "skilled and thoughtful users" of the program.
Her decision to publicly identify herself to others on the Internet discussion boards "just seemed to make sense," she said.
And while Ms. Welsh has chosen to go the extra mile and identify herself to FlyerTalkers, others at Northwest log on anonymously to monitor the buzz in cyberspace.
"The Internet has pervaded enough of the company that people monitor their own discussion areas -- like safety, frequent flier[s] and aviation enthusiasts," says Northwest spokesman Jon Austin. The company employs a clipping service to monitor various discussion groups, but Mr. Austin says Northwest staff drop in from time to time to check out the newsgroups and respond to a posting, "especially if it's egregious enough."
There are myriad newsgroups, bulletin boards and chat rooms on the Net dedicated to travel, including FlyerTalk, the Usenet newsgroup rec.travel.air, Yahoo's travel bulletin boards and the discussion boards at Trip.com.
There also are sites developed by irate travelers to encourage others to air their concerns about specific airlines. Untied.com, a sounding board for United passengers with complaints, recently redesigned its site to mirror United's recently revamped home page, while a slogan on NorthWorstAir.org describes the site as being "a forum for Northwest Air customers to trade horror stories about NWA's service with an 'attitude.' "
Although these negative forums provide an opportunity for travelers to vent their frustrations, "flaming" an airline with negative comments seldom results in the rectification of a problem.
"Their credibility is weak," is how United's Mileage Plus marketing manager, Jim Davidovich, describes the consumers who voice complaints on Untied.com. But he is quick to point out that other online forums provide him with valuable insights as to how serious frequent fliers view United's marketing efforts. He's an avid reader of FlyerTalk, often logging in from home to find out the latest hot topics.
"I check it because I'm an airline junkie -- what the customer is thinking is important," he says. "I feel more confident going into meetings and being able to say, 'this is the pulse of the public.' "
But Mr. Davidovich says he has no intention of assigning a member of his staff to monitor online discussions of United, even on FlyerTalk.
"I want people to be open," he explains. "If travelers think there's someone there responding, it's no longer an open and free forum."
Pankaj Gupta, a computer programmer from Denver who is a regular participant in FlyerTalk, also is concerned that the presence of marketing representatives online sometimes has a negative effect on the quality of discussions.
"What happens is you get lots of people asking superfluous questions -- questions that should just go to customer service," he says. But Mr. Gupta acknowledges that FlyerTalk participants have an edge when it comes to problem resolution, and it makes sense for airlines and hotel chains to monitor online discussions.
"I don't see anything wrong with their being there, but they may get more than they bargained for," he says. "It shouldn't be a substitute for good customer service."
Industry executives insist that establishing an online presence isn't an open invitation for wired fliers to circumvent traditional channels when it comes to customer-service issues. Instead, they claim it's simply another way to glean customer feedback without having to wait for the results from focus groups or market research surveys.
"It's just another forum for people to communicate," says Adam Burke, senior vice president for marketing at Hilton Hotels & Resorts. He says members of Hilton's customer service staff in Dallas monitor online discussions on a regular basis, and they occasionally respond via e-mail to address specific issues or questions.
Mr. Burke also made the decision to "go live" on FlyerTalk back in April, and was honored along with Ms. Welsh for his decision to upgrade his status from lurker to participant.
"Historically, we've always been very much driven by the voice of consumers, and FlyerTalk has become an integral part of our marketing," he says. Although Mr. Burke maintains that online discussions have not had any impact on any specific program decisions to date, he says there have been comments posted that Hilton has "put into the hopper" for consideration later this year.
While cyberspace provides a virtual sounding board for consumers to vent their frustrations about travel in general, and airlines in particular, it is the caliber of discussion on the FlyerTalk board which has prompted travel industry executives identify themselves in an independent forum, outside the cozy confines of their own corporate Web sites.
Randy Petersen, editor of InsideFlyer magazine and Webflyer, the cyberspace address for FlyerTalk, says the two-year-old discussion group gets approximately 3,000 posts per week, and that the "fanatical" nature of the participants makes it an ideal place for marketing executives to interact with business fliers.
"The knowledge that's up there is quality stuff, and it happens in real time," he says. "There's nothing that happens without it being commented on."
Discussions have been so lively and informative, he says, that InsideFlyer plans to open a "Talk Mail" section of its site to highlight hot topics and discussion threads on a weekly basis.
But Mr. Petersen also notes that while marketing executives can use FlyerTalk to pick up valuable information from sophisticated fliers, airlines and hotels face the danger of promising more than they can deliver. He points out that it's not the job of airline and hotel reps to respond to countless consumer queries beyond the company's Web site.
"None of the airlines have created this dialogue with their own consumers -- they have defaulted this to us," he says.
But others in the industry are willing to track down answers to technical questions for the chance to tap into the wealth of frequent-flier knowledge available for free online.
"In the past year, there's a heightening realization that this is a mechanism we can really use," says Nan Moss, an assistant vice president for marketing at Hyatt Hotels and Resorts. In July, she assigned a "Hyatt Gold Passport Internet Concierge" to monitor FlyerTalk and respond publicly to questions and concerns about the hotel's frequent guest program.
For the moment, at least, only the FlyerTalk participants warrant this kind of personalized virtual attention. And some of them think it's about time the industry takes seriously what's being said online.
"If a company can catch these issues before they escalate, they win big," says Efrem Mallach, a FlyerTalk participant Chelmsford, Mass. "I think more companies should do the same."
Copyright © 1999 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
http://interactive.wsj.com/public/cu...ssFareMain.htm
[This message has been edited by mijne (edited 09-01-1999).]
Sep 2, 1999, 6:52 am
#4
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Yeah, but where's MJW? http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/Foru...ML/000208.html
Sep 2, 1999, 8:05 am
#5
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Guess the article only ended up in the online edition. Checked the paper this morning, and couldn't find it.
Sep 2, 1999, 12:55 pm
#6
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Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Chipper: I think it's already happening. I see two familiar faces here already today, and I was curious as to how they found the place, given that neither has been here in the last couple of years. Now I know why.
I just hope the calibre stays high. But being it's the WSJ, I'm guessing it will.
Regards,
Ken Hamer
I just hope the calibre stays high. But being it's the WSJ, I'm guessing it will.
Regards,
Ken Hamer
Sep 8, 1999, 6:18 am
#7
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The comment from the United representative, about the credibility of untied.com posters being "weak" is a concern. If Flyer Talk becomes a home for disgruntled customers to gripe about the programs, it may lose some of its perspective, and value.
Sep 8, 1999, 12:15 pm
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Massachusetts, USA; AA Plat, DL GM and Flying Colonel; Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 24,236
Good thing I check this place regularly, or I never would have found out they gave me my 15 minutes of fame in the last line! I had a nice conversation with the writer but didn't know the piece had actually appeared.
(A previous version of this post, prior to the edit, said they hadn't contacted me. This was a memory lapse on my part. Apologies to the author and WSJ for misleading anyone who read my post before this correction.)
[This message has been edited by Efrem (edited 09-08-1999).]
(A previous version of this post, prior to the edit, said they hadn't contacted me. This was a memory lapse on my part. Apologies to the author and WSJ for misleading anyone who read my post before this correction.)
[This message has been edited by Efrem (edited 09-08-1999).]
Sep 8, 1999, 3:32 pm
#11
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Tribe Flyer,
No the post dates were correct. It really did show up in the electronic edition that much earlier than the paper.
Craig
No the post dates were correct. It really did show up in the electronic edition that much earlier than the paper.
Craig
Sep 10, 1999, 10:56 am
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: Massachusetts, USA; AA Plat, DL GM and Flying Colonel; Bonvoy Platinum
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Interesting sidelight to this: there is (was?) a poster here who used the name UALURKS and claimed to be from United. He or she made one insulting post this past April, coming down hard and sarcastically on folks who complained about getting UAL mailings too late to use the offers in them, and was beaten up a bit along with some questions about his/her legitimacy. There was another around July. I haven't seen the name since.
Sep 11, 1999, 8:26 am
#13
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I also hope this doesn't mean that lurkers from frequent flyer programs will view our ways to take full advantage of their offers. Example: I've earned thousands of extra miles that I wouldn never have known about if I hadn't been reading the American Airlines board. Did the AAdvantage people plan on so many people signing up for bonus miles offers--such as Sports Federation and Avon? I think not. I would never have known about the offers otherwise and would not have earned the extra miles. If the FF programs monitor their boards, will they see that many people are sharing this info and will they make the bonus miles harder to get? Possibly.
Being of a suspicious nature, I think the frequent flyer programs do not make offers that they think everyone will participate in. If they see on these boards that many people can participate in an offer when they see how easy it is to fulfill the requirements, will they change or drop the offers? This WSJ article brings the spotlight on FlyerTalk and that is good. I just hope there are no side effects to any of the FF programs.
Being of a suspicious nature, I think the frequent flyer programs do not make offers that they think everyone will participate in. If they see on these boards that many people can participate in an offer when they see how easy it is to fulfill the requirements, will they change or drop the offers? This WSJ article brings the spotlight on FlyerTalk and that is good. I just hope there are no side effects to any of the FF programs.
Sep 11, 1999, 2:42 pm
#14
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Nanook, I don't think you will see promotional offers decrease or harder to get because we talk about them on FT. Of course, they don't expect everyone to take advantage of them. But they hope that some will bite. A good analogy can be made to rebates in the retail world. About 5% of people eligible ever submit their claim for a rebate, so the payout for a manufacturer is far less than the potential liability. The advantage for airlines is that they can put on a cap on how many seats are for sale at a certain price.
[This message has been edited by jeffreyt (edited 09-11-1999).]
[This message has been edited by jeffreyt (edited 09-11-1999).]