Will my 3 yr. old survive East Coast to Down Under?
Aug 18, 2002, 9:34 pm
#16
Moderator: Delta SkyMiles, Luxury Hotels, TravelBuzz! and Italy
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 26,543
HFLY Quote:"When kids take lots of longhaul flights from a young age, they do NOT see it as a chore in later life"
I completely agree with HFLY. I am always amused when I see posters complaining about "long flights" from the East Coast. As a westcoaster with 4 kids, they learned, early-on, that a typical flight was a minimum of 5 hours--flying time to Hawaii. Therefore, when they began to travel to Europe and looked at a non-stop 10 hour flight, it was not a big deal. Perhaps, there is just a west coast mind-set. NY--5 hours--HNL--5 hours--ORD--3 hrs--CDG--10 hrs--SFO-- 1 hour--LAS--40 minutes. They understood from about 3 years of age that airplane trips took a long time (unless they were visiting their relatives in San Francisco) When I say that I am off to Venice or Santiago or Paris for a few days, they simply shrug their shoulders. No big deal. Now that they are grown, they see a trip to Japan or HKG as just a few hours more than Hawaii and to again, quote HFLY, it is not a "chore."
I completely agree with HFLY. I am always amused when I see posters complaining about "long flights" from the East Coast. As a westcoaster with 4 kids, they learned, early-on, that a typical flight was a minimum of 5 hours--flying time to Hawaii. Therefore, when they began to travel to Europe and looked at a non-stop 10 hour flight, it was not a big deal. Perhaps, there is just a west coast mind-set. NY--5 hours--HNL--5 hours--ORD--3 hrs--CDG--10 hrs--SFO-- 1 hour--LAS--40 minutes. They understood from about 3 years of age that airplane trips took a long time (unless they were visiting their relatives in San Francisco) When I say that I am off to Venice or Santiago or Paris for a few days, they simply shrug their shoulders. No big deal. Now that they are grown, they see a trip to Japan or HKG as just a few hours more than Hawaii and to again, quote HFLY, it is not a "chore."
Aug 19, 2002, 8:59 am
#17
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Woodstock, GA USA
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Delta DM & 1MM, Hertz and Avis President's Circle
Posts: 906
I'd recommend taking a first trip to somewhere in your own timezone. Disney is an excellent choice. The excitement of a plane ride and going to Disney is perfect. Also, go to Disney at Christmas time. The first few weeks of December, Disney World offers a special Christmas event. We took my older one there for his first trip and we've never forgotten it! My little ones (now almost five) first trip was ATL-LAX. The plane ride was easy but the time change was murder. I'm not sure he ever got back on eastern time since that trip.
Hawaii is a nice trip for kids, we went in April, but it's a mighty long trip. We took ours to Switzerland last year which is about the same distance but non-stop on Delta. Outbound wasn't too bad since it's overnight but return was all daytime and really stressed us out trying to keep them occupied.
One thing, people tend to second-guess what they think kids would like to see on a trip. That's all I heard about going to Switzerland. "Oh, he'll be bored...blah, blah." Well my youngest, who was 3, not quite four, loved it. We bought a family rail pass. The trains and seeing the mountains was a real treat for him. Now, everytime he thinks about Switzerland, he tells us he needs to go back so he can restock his supply of Swiss chocolate!
And if you do go to Hawaii, go to the big island and see the volcano. That's all I've heard all summer are references to volcanoes and "hot lava".
It's hard to predict what kids will like or dislike when it comes to trips. I have friends who've taken their young children back home to India from the States and it's always interesting to see how the kids handled it.
It really boils down to how your kids are socialized. To a kid, a jet ride is fun. Imagine, all the sodas you want and special kids meals. Big (to them) seats with windows to look at the clouds and so forth. But if your kids aren't well-socialized, i.e. don't handle eating out well or get anxious in crowded venues like sporting events, etc. then I'd take the travel thing very cautiously.
Hawaii is a nice trip for kids, we went in April, but it's a mighty long trip. We took ours to Switzerland last year which is about the same distance but non-stop on Delta. Outbound wasn't too bad since it's overnight but return was all daytime and really stressed us out trying to keep them occupied.
One thing, people tend to second-guess what they think kids would like to see on a trip. That's all I heard about going to Switzerland. "Oh, he'll be bored...blah, blah." Well my youngest, who was 3, not quite four, loved it. We bought a family rail pass. The trains and seeing the mountains was a real treat for him. Now, everytime he thinks about Switzerland, he tells us he needs to go back so he can restock his supply of Swiss chocolate!
And if you do go to Hawaii, go to the big island and see the volcano. That's all I've heard all summer are references to volcanoes and "hot lava".
It's hard to predict what kids will like or dislike when it comes to trips. I have friends who've taken their young children back home to India from the States and it's always interesting to see how the kids handled it.
It really boils down to how your kids are socialized. To a kid, a jet ride is fun. Imagine, all the sodas you want and special kids meals. Big (to them) seats with windows to look at the clouds and so forth. But if your kids aren't well-socialized, i.e. don't handle eating out well or get anxious in crowded venues like sporting events, etc. then I'd take the travel thing very cautiously.
Aug 19, 2002, 7:37 pm
#18
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Volunteerland
Programs: Delta GM, Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 1,222
Skip - just returned from 2 weeks in Italy with kids aged 10,9,6,3 and 1. While the flight time from ATL to FCO is not as bad as LAX or SFO to SYD(?), it is long enough to draw some conclusions that might help you.
Our kids were great on both int'l segments. My wife and I diligently planned ahead to make sure it went as smoothly as possible. Lots of snacks and age appropriate diversions ( books, tapes, crayons, etc) made all the difference in the world. This was our second time taking the whole gang abroad and both times it went suprisingly smoothly. You never really know how much they bothered other people until several passengers, upon deplaning, remark that they were unbelievably well behaved.It's a feeling of great achievement I assure you.
So much of it comes down to the general demeanor of the child. If a kid has a tough time tolerating a 2 hour car ride, they are obviously not a good candidate for a 13 hour plane trip. If however, a child does well travelling relatively short distances, with a little planning they should have no problem travelling long distances.
There is also something to be said for going where you want to go. All of your potential destinations offer a ton of stuff that would be fun for a small child. None of these places are going be monument/church staring experiences.
Regarding the passport, you can turn it around in about a week if you have to. Overnight it to your closest agency and include an overnight return envelope. I think I got my 1 year old's passport in 6 days from mailing.
Good luck either way and travel safely.
Our kids were great on both int'l segments. My wife and I diligently planned ahead to make sure it went as smoothly as possible. Lots of snacks and age appropriate diversions ( books, tapes, crayons, etc) made all the difference in the world. This was our second time taking the whole gang abroad and both times it went suprisingly smoothly. You never really know how much they bothered other people until several passengers, upon deplaning, remark that they were unbelievably well behaved.It's a feeling of great achievement I assure you.
So much of it comes down to the general demeanor of the child. If a kid has a tough time tolerating a 2 hour car ride, they are obviously not a good candidate for a 13 hour plane trip. If however, a child does well travelling relatively short distances, with a little planning they should have no problem travelling long distances.
There is also something to be said for going where you want to go. All of your potential destinations offer a ton of stuff that would be fun for a small child. None of these places are going be monument/church staring experiences.
Regarding the passport, you can turn it around in about a week if you have to. Overnight it to your closest agency and include an overnight return envelope. I think I got my 1 year old's passport in 6 days from mailing.
Good luck either way and travel safely.
Aug 20, 2002, 10:00 am
#19
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Borneo
Posts: 5
We made two long trips with our now 3 yo son: Montreal-Singapore when he was 7 months, Montreal-Melbourne when he was 1 and half, with a few days break in Singapore. He did well. He now loves planes but has no recollection of ever being in one.
I would stick to Asian airlines when traveling with kids. They relate to babies/toddlers better than Western airlines. We have had wonderful experience with JAL and SIA. They practically baby sat our son while we took a break. They were also wonderful Japanese elderly tourists who took turns amusing him.
I would stick to Asian airlines when traveling with kids. They relate to babies/toddlers better than Western airlines. We have had wonderful experience with JAL and SIA. They practically baby sat our son while we took a break. They were also wonderful Japanese elderly tourists who took turns amusing him.
Sep 1, 2002, 11:54 am
#20
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: STL, MO, USA;BCN, Spain;LGW, UK
Posts: 840
I have done STL-LAX-HGK with my 2 year old in coach a couple of times(transatlantic in coach several times), it wasn't too bad for her and she always asks about when we are going on the plane. I think it all comes down to the planning one does ahead of time to make it fun for the child and to keep some persepctive as a parent and not get stressed out over the little things or what some uptight non parents may or may not be thinking.
Going back over in a couple of months (to Taipei and Shanghai through Hong Kong and then down to NZ and OZ and back to STL through Hong Kong in a month long trip) all in 1st this time on CX. Don't anticipate any problems, just allot of fun.
Going back over in a couple of months (to Taipei and Shanghai through Hong Kong and then down to NZ and OZ and back to STL through Hong Kong in a month long trip) all in 1st this time on CX. Don't anticipate any problems, just allot of fun.
Sep 4, 2002, 9:18 pm
#21
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: IN, U.S.
Posts: 42
Took my 4 yr old and 9 mo old daughters ORD-Lon-Bom-Maa without problems. The Boeing 747 had a bassinet row so the 9 mo old could sleep easily (didn't need ticketed seat). What worked was to bring snacks, entertainment (coloring books), and Benadryl.
Both kids also had travelled earlier in the year Phx-Lax-Kon without problems. The 4 year old just thinks plane rides last a long time and prepares for it.
I agree with the suggestion to bring a car seat, but we usually check it in. We also check-in a portable playpen to use as a crib. The baby sleeps better in a familiar environment.
Both kids also had travelled earlier in the year Phx-Lax-Kon without problems. The 4 year old just thinks plane rides last a long time and prepares for it.
I agree with the suggestion to bring a car seat, but we usually check it in. We also check-in a portable playpen to use as a crib. The baby sleeps better in a familiar environment.
Sep 8, 2002, 7:31 pm
#22
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: JAX FL
Posts: 38
My daughter was 5 days old on her first int flight Narita to Sydney. We did it so often that we got to know the purser, she would be most upset if the baby slept all through the flight.
We have done FL to Sydney at least once a year for the last 10.
I have had many a rude comment made to me about travelling kids and then many apologies after for making the initial statements.
You can do it but you must be prepared to entertain your child.
A few things that will help.
If you are on the east coast and departing to Oz you will be leaving well past the little one's bed time when you get to SFO or LAX. This means that they will probably be cranky before getting on the plane but should settle down soon after.
Book a bulk head if possible. When travelling alone with my little one I always grab one of the rows of 2 in the back of the bus where it goes from 3 seats to 2. The advantages are that you have a little more room next to you and you do not have someone you do not know sitting next to you.
Pack a goodie bag. I used to pack a bunch of markers and crayons and such to play with. I always packed something new as well. One of the best things that I ever bought was a small erasable white board. Kept her entertained for hours. This was her carry on and at 5 I started letting her choose some items to take.
Order the kiddies meals. Even though I have a teenager now between my meal and her childs meal I know that she will always eat something. (I never get the the cookies
)
Expect to have times when they are a little cranky. Try walking them up and down the aisles occasionally. (not during meals)
Be firm, even at three they need to understand that there are some rules that need to be obeyed. We have a 5' rule. No more than 5 feet from Mum at any time when we are travelling. We still use this rule now 10 years later. Then there is the golden rule - no touching the seat at all in front. We called this the hot seat rule.
My daughter and I have ridden in economy to first all around the world. She hates the small seats but has become quite the savvy frequent flyer. Drives her dad nuts as she is more experienced at the game than he is. It is sooo funny an 11 year old explaining how things work to an adult male.
DO NOT let your little one run around without shoes on. I was told a story once on a Qantas flight about the fact that they had found a needle on a plane on the floor. Even though security is tighter on these things just remember that the floor has all sorts of cooties. I can't tell you how many times I have seen babies crawling around on the floor on a plane.
Take your little one with you, it will be a most memorable time for your whole family. I have never regretted taking mine, the sight of her feeding the roos at 2yo and the look on her face was priceless.
I will be making my first trip home without her this month and I miss her already. I would trade my upgrades if I could take her out of school and take her with me but she is at a point now that she cannot.
She is 11 and has climbed the rock, snorkled the reef. Been to Japan, Hawaii, New Zealand, Portugal, Samoa and all over the US.
Travel with them as soon as possible and enjoy every minute with them.
Make sure you sign her up for miles. Last we both went home on miles from our own accounts.
Sorry for rambling.
RJ
[This message has been edited by OZ IN FL (edited 09-08-2002).]
We have done FL to Sydney at least once a year for the last 10.
I have had many a rude comment made to me about travelling kids and then many apologies after for making the initial statements.
You can do it but you must be prepared to entertain your child.
A few things that will help.
If you are on the east coast and departing to Oz you will be leaving well past the little one's bed time when you get to SFO or LAX. This means that they will probably be cranky before getting on the plane but should settle down soon after.
Book a bulk head if possible. When travelling alone with my little one I always grab one of the rows of 2 in the back of the bus where it goes from 3 seats to 2. The advantages are that you have a little more room next to you and you do not have someone you do not know sitting next to you.
Pack a goodie bag. I used to pack a bunch of markers and crayons and such to play with. I always packed something new as well. One of the best things that I ever bought was a small erasable white board. Kept her entertained for hours. This was her carry on and at 5 I started letting her choose some items to take.
Order the kiddies meals. Even though I have a teenager now between my meal and her childs meal I know that she will always eat something. (I never get the the cookies
) Expect to have times when they are a little cranky. Try walking them up and down the aisles occasionally. (not during meals)
Be firm, even at three they need to understand that there are some rules that need to be obeyed. We have a 5' rule. No more than 5 feet from Mum at any time when we are travelling. We still use this rule now 10 years later. Then there is the golden rule - no touching the seat at all in front. We called this the hot seat rule.
My daughter and I have ridden in economy to first all around the world. She hates the small seats but has become quite the savvy frequent flyer. Drives her dad nuts as she is more experienced at the game than he is. It is sooo funny an 11 year old explaining how things work to an adult male.
DO NOT let your little one run around without shoes on. I was told a story once on a Qantas flight about the fact that they had found a needle on a plane on the floor. Even though security is tighter on these things just remember that the floor has all sorts of cooties. I can't tell you how many times I have seen babies crawling around on the floor on a plane.
Take your little one with you, it will be a most memorable time for your whole family. I have never regretted taking mine, the sight of her feeding the roos at 2yo and the look on her face was priceless.
I will be making my first trip home without her this month and I miss her already. I would trade my upgrades if I could take her out of school and take her with me but she is at a point now that she cannot.
She is 11 and has climbed the rock, snorkled the reef. Been to Japan, Hawaii, New Zealand, Portugal, Samoa and all over the US.
Travel with them as soon as possible and enjoy every minute with them.
Make sure you sign her up for miles. Last we both went home on miles from our own accounts.
Sorry for rambling.
RJ
[This message has been edited by OZ IN FL (edited 09-08-2002).]
Sep 9, 2002, 12:34 pm
#23
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: AA EXP/1MM
Posts: 524
My advice is that if you want to go to Australia, then do it; things will work out with a flexible attitude. My hubby & I bring our 2 kids almost wherever we go. We recently took 6 weeks in Australia (they were 7 months and 4.5 years). The plane ride SFO-SYD was amazingly easy. I've found that the longer flights are almost easier than shorter hauls because everyone sort of looses track of their hometown time and the kids sleep a lot. Trying to take evening flights helps. Dealing with jet lag is trying but passes quickly. We had a wonderful trip, flying to Cairns and driving down to Brisbane for the flight home. Hayman Island resort was extremely child friendly, the kids loved playing on the beaches, boat rides, zoo visits... My son loves staying in hotel rooms. He is still asking when we are going back. Trips with kids are more involved, require more gear, more flexibility, and force you to slow down, but you'll have the greatest memories, and you'll have experiences you wouldn't have had without them there.
Sep 9, 2002, 12:45 pm
#24
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: AA EXP/1MM
Posts: 524
"How long will it take to get them passports?"
Passports can be quick if you already have the birth certificates. I think you also need your marriage certificate if your wife changed her last name.
Passports can be quick if you already have the birth certificates. I think you also need your marriage certificate if your wife changed her last name.
Sep 21, 2002, 8:43 am
#25
Original Member, Moderator: Hotel Deals and MilesBuzz
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 14,257
We are taking our 4.5 yr old son to Australia in November. Starting out in Virginia, we planned our trip with a 36 hour layover in LAX. A side trip to Legoland will wear him out and he will be ready to sleep a solid 10 hours (like he does every night) when we board our late evening departure LAX-SYD. I figure that when he wakes up 10 hours later, he will only have to deal with 4-5 more hours of flying and he is very used to doing that.
We planned our trip to include plenty of cool stuff that will entertain a young kid....Koala Sactuary in Brisbane....snorkeling off Great Barrier Reef, etc.
------------------
Addicted to airline miles? Check out: Mileage Workshop --- "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa (1940-93)
We planned our trip to include plenty of cool stuff that will entertain a young kid....Koala Sactuary in Brisbane....snorkeling off Great Barrier Reef, etc.
------------------
Addicted to airline miles? Check out: Mileage Workshop --- "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa (1940-93)
Feb 11, 2004, 1:10 am
#26
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Programs: AA PLT, SPG GLD, PC PLT SPIRE
Posts: 4,531
Excellent discussion. The Mrs. and I are planning a trip to Asia and are a bit concerned about our two youngin's being able to handle the long flights. They are both relatively frequent flyers and have already done LAX-MCO and have flown the LAX-Hawaii many many times so we are thinking of trying to take a really long haul flight.
We would be taking the Au Pair so we are not too concerned about the Mrs. and I being able to sneak off while the kids are enjoying the pool/beach.
Any current thoughts or suggestions on making LAX-Hong Kong/Singapore/OZ an enjoyable flight for toddlers.
[This message has been edited by onedog (edited Feb 11, 2004).]
We would be taking the Au Pair so we are not too concerned about the Mrs. and I being able to sneak off while the kids are enjoying the pool/beach.
Any current thoughts or suggestions on making LAX-Hong Kong/Singapore/OZ an enjoyable flight for toddlers.
[This message has been edited by onedog (edited Feb 11, 2004).]
Feb 11, 2004, 5:16 pm
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,347
It's amazing that this thread has come back up and I can read my earlier words.
Not too long after I posted on this thread, I had a child myself (my posting was based on my own experience growing up).
Since he was 5 weeks old my child has travelled over 75,000 miles. Three times to the US, Once to South America, Twice to the Caribbean, Once to the Middle East, and once to Asia (not to mention a few Euro trips).
He has held up quite well. The first six months, he was no problem at all and in fact only had one crying fit in many flights. At 9 months old we had a memorable melt down due to a long delay in Atlanta.
Other than the fact that he now wants to run the aisles for the first hour or two of the flight, he is the perfect flier and will sleep the majority of the flight now (unfortunately he has just "outgrown" bassinets, so we may have a problem with this in the future).
My biggest advice is to just make sure that you have enough materials to keep your child occupeid, whetehr its DVD's coloring books, even strips of velcro and stickers, this is the most important thing. The other of course is to try to minimize the amount of stops and transfers.
Not too long after I posted on this thread, I had a child myself (my posting was based on my own experience growing up).
Since he was 5 weeks old my child has travelled over 75,000 miles. Three times to the US, Once to South America, Twice to the Caribbean, Once to the Middle East, and once to Asia (not to mention a few Euro trips).
He has held up quite well. The first six months, he was no problem at all and in fact only had one crying fit in many flights. At 9 months old we had a memorable melt down due to a long delay in Atlanta.
Other than the fact that he now wants to run the aisles for the first hour or two of the flight, he is the perfect flier and will sleep the majority of the flight now (unfortunately he has just "outgrown" bassinets, so we may have a problem with this in the future).
My biggest advice is to just make sure that you have enough materials to keep your child occupeid, whetehr its DVD's coloring books, even strips of velcro and stickers, this is the most important thing. The other of course is to try to minimize the amount of stops and transfers.
Feb 16, 2004, 11:33 am
#28
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Programs: AA PLT, SPG GLD, PC PLT SPIRE
Posts: 4,531
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by hfly:
...Since he was 5 weeks old my child has travelled over 75,000 miles. Three times to the US, Once to South America, Twice to the Caribbean, Once to the Middle East, and once to Asia (not to mention a few Euro trips).
He has held up quite well. The first six months, he was no problem at all and in fact only had one crying fit in many flights. At 9 months old we had a memorable melt down due to a long delay in Atlanta.
Other than the fact that he now wants to run the aisles for the first hour or two of the flight, he is the perfect flier and will sleep the majority of the flight now (unfortunately he has just "outgrown" bassinets, so we may have a problem with this in the future).
My biggest advice is to just make sure that you have enough materials to keep your child occupeid, whetehr its DVD's coloring books, even strips of velcro and stickers, this is the most important thing. The other of course is to try to minimize the amount of stops and transfers.</font>
...Since he was 5 weeks old my child has travelled over 75,000 miles. Three times to the US, Once to South America, Twice to the Caribbean, Once to the Middle East, and once to Asia (not to mention a few Euro trips).
He has held up quite well. The first six months, he was no problem at all and in fact only had one crying fit in many flights. At 9 months old we had a memorable melt down due to a long delay in Atlanta.
Other than the fact that he now wants to run the aisles for the first hour or two of the flight, he is the perfect flier and will sleep the majority of the flight now (unfortunately he has just "outgrown" bassinets, so we may have a problem with this in the future).
My biggest advice is to just make sure that you have enough materials to keep your child occupeid, whetehr its DVD's coloring books, even strips of velcro and stickers, this is the most important thing. The other of course is to try to minimize the amount of stops and transfers.</font>
Feb 19, 2004, 9:31 pm
#29
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 96
One more thing that I would add to all the excellent advice here - be sure and bring some of your child's favorite snacks. There's nothing like a child discovering that the long awaited airline supplied PB&J is dehydrated and crusty. Snacks are also good for those awful "we'll be boarding as soon as possible" times that stretch for hours.
As far as ways of keeping toddlers occupied, several novel things are a good idea. If they're totally new, it's more interesting. And if you're flying near a school vacation and go to one of the local toy stores, you may find that they've been pretty much wiped out. Did that today. Twelve hour flight on Sunday, two children, only one new book. Time to hit another store tomorrow!
A couple of ideas - Etch a Sketch, Mr. Potato Head, sticker books, dot to dot books, finger puppets, books, etc.
I'd recommend the Animal Match Puzzles too
http://www.learningforallages.com/Puzzles3.htm
My children would make up stories about the animals and pretend play with them after doing the puzzles. They're a bit big for them now.
As far as ways of keeping toddlers occupied, several novel things are a good idea. If they're totally new, it's more interesting. And if you're flying near a school vacation and go to one of the local toy stores, you may find that they've been pretty much wiped out. Did that today. Twelve hour flight on Sunday, two children, only one new book. Time to hit another store tomorrow!
A couple of ideas - Etch a Sketch, Mr. Potato Head, sticker books, dot to dot books, finger puppets, books, etc.
I'd recommend the Animal Match Puzzles too
http://www.learningforallages.com/Puzzles3.htm
My children would make up stories about the animals and pretend play with them after doing the puzzles. They're a bit big for them now.