Help Please - Potential Refusal of Child Seat and Practical Problems
Aug 3, 2023 | 5:10 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 6
Help Please - Potential Refusal of Child Seat and Practical Problems
Hi,
I’m looking for advice on flying internationally with my 11 year old daughter's Britax Frontier Clicktight.
We’re flying American from Chicago to Rome.
Has anyone ever had (or seen) the use of a child seat refused for an older child? I've been told this can happen despite FAA rules. If you have/did, what could have stopped it from happening? Specific paperwork, car seat manual, preauthorization from the airline?
And does anyone have any tips for flying with the Frontier given it's a big seat? I’ve been told it fits in an aircraft seat, even with some of it just over the edges of the seats so that's not an issue. I have been told that it can make the child too high and too far forward to be able to use the tray table. If so, what tricks are there to help with that? Are there portable tray tables you can buy or are they not worth it?
I’ve also been told the Frontier is uncomfortable when installed on an aircraft seats, but I don't fully get why.
Does anyone know about any of this or can offer some advice?
Thank you for any help.
I’m looking for advice on flying internationally with my 11 year old daughter's Britax Frontier Clicktight.
We’re flying American from Chicago to Rome.
Has anyone ever had (or seen) the use of a child seat refused for an older child? I've been told this can happen despite FAA rules. If you have/did, what could have stopped it from happening? Specific paperwork, car seat manual, preauthorization from the airline?
And does anyone have any tips for flying with the Frontier given it's a big seat? I’ve been told it fits in an aircraft seat, even with some of it just over the edges of the seats so that's not an issue. I have been told that it can make the child too high and too far forward to be able to use the tray table. If so, what tricks are there to help with that? Are there portable tray tables you can buy or are they not worth it?
I’ve also been told the Frontier is uncomfortable when installed on an aircraft seats, but I don't fully get why.
Does anyone know about any of this or can offer some advice?
Thank you for any help.
Aug 4, 2023 | 6:54 pm
#2
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 5,026
https://carseatblog.com/46164/consum...Cosco%20Finale
Aug 6, 2023 | 11:36 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 6
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I'm aware of the consumer reports testing. But I have much more faith in the NHTSA standards. Consumer Reports have a history of inaccurate, vague, and sensationalist testing when it comes to child seats. Though I think these were better than ones they had done before, there were still significant problems with their approach and what they chose to communicate about the tests. I know the Consumer Reports stuff did throw up a few question marks about car seat testing generally, but it's inaccurate to say the Frontier was discontinued because of safety reasons. That wasn't the case. It was also never recalled. Thanks for the info though.
Yes, I'm aware of the consumer reports testing. But I have much more faith in the NHTSA standards. Consumer Reports have a history of inaccurate, vague, and sensationalist testing when it comes to child seats. Though I think these were better than ones they had done before, there were still significant problems with their approach and what they chose to communicate about the tests. I know the Consumer Reports stuff did throw up a few question marks about car seat testing generally, but it's inaccurate to say the Frontier was discontinued because of safety reasons. That wasn't the case. It was also never recalled. Thanks for the info though.
Aug 6, 2023 | 11:48 am
#4
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Boston's north shore
Programs: Atmos Platinum
Posts: 409
HfromIL Welcome to FlyerTalk!
I traveled with car seats at least a couple of times per year for about a decade, sometimes with two seats (as a mom alone with two kids), so I fretted about this stuff quite a bit several years ago.
This page is very useful, from the FAA:
https://www.faa.gov/travelers/fly_children##AboutCRS
In the USA, you do have the right to use an approved, correctly sized child restraint for your child under aged 18, but I would carry a printout and have the link handy in case of push back from airline staff. On the other hand, I do not know what rights you have if you fly an international airline or connect in Europe. Hopefully someone else can chime in.
First question:
Is that particular seat important due to some personal needs of your child?
One thing I personally did is switch to a more airline seat friendly car seat just for travel on planes. I had a huge Britax seat installed in my car at home, but I bought an extra, slimmer seat that fit more easily in a plane seat. For me, the extra money was less important than making my life easier when I traveled. Also, uninstalling and reinstalling the car seat was hard, so I spent money to do that less often.
Second question:
Is your child using the ClickTight as a harnessed seat?
Just want to be sure you are aware, booster seats aren't safe or approved to be used on a plane, only harnessed seats. Also, make sure the label is still affixed to your kid's seat stating that it is "Certifed for use in Motor Vehicles and Aircraft." I had that sticker peel off on at least one older car seat, and the airline doesn't have to allow any seat without that label attached.
Third question:
Does your child require the seat in flight, or are you just wanting to be sure you have one in Rome?
For me, as my kids got older, I switched to a lightweight Ride Safer Travel Vest (link below) for flights where I wanted to know I had a safe car seat/restraint for use upon arrival, but after they were comfortable and willing to stay buckled en route. I preferred a hard-shelled, high backed booster at home, but this product made travel much easier with booster-eligible children.
https://saferide4kids.com/
My kids inherited my short stature (and short torso), so one was in a booster up all through middle school until he finally hit his growth spurt. If the booster is just for your child's height, not for special needs, it is helpful to know that the skeleton of an older child (>8 years or so) is typically much more developed, so the risks from using normal seat belts can go down just due to normal growth and development.
Finally, when my kids were in child safety seats, this web site was my go to resource for specialist information. Many posters are technicians who install seats professionally. Maybe they can help if I missed your point entirely.
https://www.car-seat.org/
I traveled with car seats at least a couple of times per year for about a decade, sometimes with two seats (as a mom alone with two kids), so I fretted about this stuff quite a bit several years ago.
This page is very useful, from the FAA:
https://www.faa.gov/travelers/fly_children##AboutCRS
In the USA, you do have the right to use an approved, correctly sized child restraint for your child under aged 18, but I would carry a printout and have the link handy in case of push back from airline staff. On the other hand, I do not know what rights you have if you fly an international airline or connect in Europe. Hopefully someone else can chime in.
First question:
Is that particular seat important due to some personal needs of your child?
One thing I personally did is switch to a more airline seat friendly car seat just for travel on planes. I had a huge Britax seat installed in my car at home, but I bought an extra, slimmer seat that fit more easily in a plane seat. For me, the extra money was less important than making my life easier when I traveled. Also, uninstalling and reinstalling the car seat was hard, so I spent money to do that less often.
Second question:
Is your child using the ClickTight as a harnessed seat?
Just want to be sure you are aware, booster seats aren't safe or approved to be used on a plane, only harnessed seats. Also, make sure the label is still affixed to your kid's seat stating that it is "Certifed for use in Motor Vehicles and Aircraft." I had that sticker peel off on at least one older car seat, and the airline doesn't have to allow any seat without that label attached.
Third question:
Does your child require the seat in flight, or are you just wanting to be sure you have one in Rome?
For me, as my kids got older, I switched to a lightweight Ride Safer Travel Vest (link below) for flights where I wanted to know I had a safe car seat/restraint for use upon arrival, but after they were comfortable and willing to stay buckled en route. I preferred a hard-shelled, high backed booster at home, but this product made travel much easier with booster-eligible children.
https://saferide4kids.com/
My kids inherited my short stature (and short torso), so one was in a booster up all through middle school until he finally hit his growth spurt. If the booster is just for your child's height, not for special needs, it is helpful to know that the skeleton of an older child (>8 years or so) is typically much more developed, so the risks from using normal seat belts can go down just due to normal growth and development.
Finally, when my kids were in child safety seats, this web site was my go to resource for specialist information. Many posters are technicians who install seats professionally. Maybe they can help if I missed your point entirely.
https://www.car-seat.org/
Aug 6, 2023 | 12:56 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 6
HfromIL Welcome to FlyerTalk!
I traveled with car seats at least a couple of times per year for about a decade, sometimes with two seats (as a mom alone with two kids), so I fretted about this stuff quite a bit several years ago.
This page is very useful, from the FAA:
In the USA, you do have the right to use an approved, correctly sized child restraint for your child under aged 18, but I would carry a printout and have the link handy in case of push back from airline staff. On the other hand, I do not know what rights you have if you fly an international airline or connect in Europe. Hopefully someone else can chime in.
First question:
Is that particular seat important due to some personal needs of your child?
One thing I personally did is switch to a more airline seat friendly car seat just for travel on planes. I had a huge Britax seat installed in my car at home, but I bought an extra, slimmer seat that fit more easily in a plane seat. For me, the extra money was less important than making my life easier when I traveled. Also, uninstalling and reinstalling the car seat was hard, so I spent money to do that less often.
Second question:
Is your child using the ClickTight as a harnessed seat?
Just want to be sure you are aware, booster seats aren't safe or approved to be used on a plane, only harnessed seats. Also, make sure the label is still affixed to your kid's seat stating that it is "Certifed for use in Motor Vehicles and Aircraft." I had that sticker peel off on at least one older car seat, and the airline doesn't have to allow any seat without that label attached.
Third question:
Does your child require the seat in flight, or are you just wanting to be sure you have one in Rome?
For me, as my kids got older, I switched to a lightweight Ride Safer Travel Vest (link below) for flights where I wanted to know I had a safe car seat/restraint for use upon arrival, but after they were comfortable and willing to stay buckled en route. I preferred a hard-shelled, high backed booster at home, but this product made travel much easier with booster-eligible children.
My kids inherited my short stature (and short torso), so one was in a booster up all through middle school until he finally hit his growth spurt. If the booster is just for your child's height, not for special needs, it is helpful to know that the skeleton of an older child (>8 years or so) is typically much more developed, so the risks from using normal seat belts can go down just due to normal growth and development.
Finally, when my kids were in child safety seats, this web site was my go to resource for specialist information. Many posters are technicians who install seats professionally. Maybe they can help if I missed your point entirely.
I traveled with car seats at least a couple of times per year for about a decade, sometimes with two seats (as a mom alone with two kids), so I fretted about this stuff quite a bit several years ago.
This page is very useful, from the FAA:
In the USA, you do have the right to use an approved, correctly sized child restraint for your child under aged 18, but I would carry a printout and have the link handy in case of push back from airline staff. On the other hand, I do not know what rights you have if you fly an international airline or connect in Europe. Hopefully someone else can chime in.
First question:
Is that particular seat important due to some personal needs of your child?
One thing I personally did is switch to a more airline seat friendly car seat just for travel on planes. I had a huge Britax seat installed in my car at home, but I bought an extra, slimmer seat that fit more easily in a plane seat. For me, the extra money was less important than making my life easier when I traveled. Also, uninstalling and reinstalling the car seat was hard, so I spent money to do that less often.
Second question:
Is your child using the ClickTight as a harnessed seat?
Just want to be sure you are aware, booster seats aren't safe or approved to be used on a plane, only harnessed seats. Also, make sure the label is still affixed to your kid's seat stating that it is "Certifed for use in Motor Vehicles and Aircraft." I had that sticker peel off on at least one older car seat, and the airline doesn't have to allow any seat without that label attached.
Third question:
Does your child require the seat in flight, or are you just wanting to be sure you have one in Rome?
For me, as my kids got older, I switched to a lightweight Ride Safer Travel Vest (link below) for flights where I wanted to know I had a safe car seat/restraint for use upon arrival, but after they were comfortable and willing to stay buckled en route. I preferred a hard-shelled, high backed booster at home, but this product made travel much easier with booster-eligible children.
My kids inherited my short stature (and short torso), so one was in a booster up all through middle school until he finally hit his growth spurt. If the booster is just for your child's height, not for special needs, it is helpful to know that the skeleton of an older child (>8 years or so) is typically much more developed, so the risks from using normal seat belts can go down just due to normal growth and development.
Finally, when my kids were in child safety seats, this web site was my go to resource for specialist information. Many posters are technicians who install seats professionally. Maybe they can help if I missed your point entirely.
Answer to first question: Yes. Her seat is the only one that she will safely fit into. It has higher weight and height limits than any other seat. It would be great to be able to find a more aircraft-friendly seat for her, but the Frontier is the only choice. Forgive me for not being sure of what you mean by personal needs, but this is the only seat she can fit into safely.
Answer to second question: Yes. She will be harnessed for the flight. I'm aware it can't be used for flying when in booster mode, but she hasn't yet switched from the harnessed mode to the booster mode when she's in it normally in our cars so it will be the same for her on the flight as in our cars. Fortunately, the FAA-Approval sticker is still in perfect condition on both her Frontier's (we have one for each of our cars) so no problem there.
Answer to third question: Yes. The seat is required for the flight. It's also needed for the long drive to the airport and back from the airport. I know US-approved car seats can't be used in Europe but in Rome we'll be using public transport or walking anyway and won't be renting a car.
Thanks for the info about how size, height, weight, age, growth, etc. all factor in to car seat use. I'm totally aware of that and have spoken to CPSTs about her seat (I actually got a CPST to show me how to install it when we first got it). Thanks for the links to the message board. I'll post there as well if I need to, but I figured here was better because I don't have questions about choosing a child seat or how to use one a in a vehicle - I'm only concerned about flying with one.
And thanks for the info on the FAA page. I've checked the FAA page before and I think having a copy on my phone and a paper copy is a great idea. I've been told some airlines refuse older children being in car seats even though FAA laws say they can't. That's what I'm worried about more than anything. I don't want to be confrontational at all, but I would like to have everything to hand in case they make some sort challenge to her being in her seat. I'm wondering if I could get a letter from her doctor stating her height and weight so any airline staff can see she fits safely in the limits of the seat? If I had that as well as the paperwork to say it's the law that I can take her seat onboard for her to use, would that be a good plan?
Thanks.
Aug 6, 2023 | 9:53 pm
#6
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 5,026
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I'm aware of the consumer reports testing. But I have much more faith in the NHTSA standards. Consumer Reports have a history of inaccurate, vague, and sensationalist testing when it comes to child seats. Though I think these were better than ones they had done before, there were still significant problems with their approach and what they chose to communicate about the tests. I know the Consumer Reports stuff did throw up a few question marks about car seat testing generally, but it's inaccurate to say the Frontier was discontinued because of safety reasons. That wasn't the case. It was also never recalled. Thanks for the info though.
Yes, I'm aware of the consumer reports testing. But I have much more faith in the NHTSA standards. Consumer Reports have a history of inaccurate, vague, and sensationalist testing when it comes to child seats. Though I think these were better than ones they had done before, there were still significant problems with their approach and what they chose to communicate about the tests. I know the Consumer Reports stuff did throw up a few question marks about car seat testing generally, but it's inaccurate to say the Frontier was discontinued because of safety reasons. That wasn't the case. It was also never recalled. Thanks for the info though.
https://www.britaxboosterseatsettlement.com
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...or-up-to-2-6m/
Also, While the FAA rules may clear state X, flight attendants on a foreign flagged airline, even when en route to the US, may not care, and you may be forced to follow their rules or disembark. I've encountered that in the past. If you need FAA rules to apply both directions, make sure you on are on US flagged line, not a codeshare with a foreign carrier.
Aug 7, 2023 | 9:55 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 6
How do you feel about class action lawsuits in which Britax had to pay out a couple million for selling defective seats, including the Frontier model?
Also, While the FAA rules may clear state X, flight attendants on a foreign flagged airline, even when en route to the US, may not care, and you may be forced to follow their rules or disembark. I've encountered that in the past. If you need FAA rules to apply both directions, make sure you on are on US flagged line, not a codeshare with a foreign carrier.
Also, While the FAA rules may clear state X, flight attendants on a foreign flagged airline, even when en route to the US, may not care, and you may be forced to follow their rules or disembark. I've encountered that in the past. If you need FAA rules to apply both directions, make sure you on are on US flagged line, not a codeshare with a foreign carrier.
We’re flying American. I appreciate the note about code sharing, but our outbound and return (direct) flights are operated by American.
As to your other point, I don’t believe litigiousness is equal to safety. I also don’t believe there is any worth to lawsuits based on potential rather than actual outcomes. Also, I believe such lawsuits have the potential to make children less safe by discouraging parents from using seats which have passed all NHTSA standards and were never recalled. Furthermore, I think it would be nice if such time, effort, and resources were deployed to more immediate (and dare I say real) issues, rather than helping generate $40 checks for people able to afford an expensive car seat. Finally, I also think it’s important to note Britax did not pay out “a couple million.” The final amount was less than half that.