Update on performance changes coming to FT
Sep 17, 2001, 3:19 pm
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Update on performance changes coming to FT
In order to keep FlyerTalk running at a useable level (some may say to bring it _back_ to a useable level), we've been speaking with the original designers of the board and have come up with a few steps we'll be implementing in the next few weeks.
Step 1 you've probably already noticed, as it involves truncating the main Miles forum listing into just categories. Don't worry, all the threads are still there, and in the places they were prior. By shortening the main page listing to just categories, we're reducing the amount of data that has to be sent every time a visitor hits that front list. This was a direct suggestion from the creators of UBB, and although we're hesitant about such a dramatic change, and are aware of the confusion it may bring initially, we're going to see if this actually does provide a little alleviation. Just click into the category you want, and you'll be provided with its forums as before.
Step 2 involves setting up another Forum which will serve as an archive area for old posts (greater than a year). You'll still be able to read these posts (in Archives), but since they'll be out of Miles proper, they won't be factored into searches, long display queries, and generally adding to the overhead of serving all these threads.
Step 3 will be adding servers. We've signed contracts for an additional server to pull all non-FT files onto. Based on how that performs, we're planning on then moving FT to a new, and more powerful server, and off the one we've obviously overgrown.
So, stick with us as you've been, and know that we are indeed working on things behind the scenes. And thank you for continuing to give Michael and our other techs your patience as they wrestle equally with our slowdowns as well as trying to squeeze information from vendors.
Step 1 you've probably already noticed, as it involves truncating the main Miles forum listing into just categories. Don't worry, all the threads are still there, and in the places they were prior. By shortening the main page listing to just categories, we're reducing the amount of data that has to be sent every time a visitor hits that front list. This was a direct suggestion from the creators of UBB, and although we're hesitant about such a dramatic change, and are aware of the confusion it may bring initially, we're going to see if this actually does provide a little alleviation. Just click into the category you want, and you'll be provided with its forums as before.
Step 2 involves setting up another Forum which will serve as an archive area for old posts (greater than a year). You'll still be able to read these posts (in Archives), but since they'll be out of Miles proper, they won't be factored into searches, long display queries, and generally adding to the overhead of serving all these threads.
Step 3 will be adding servers. We've signed contracts for an additional server to pull all non-FT files onto. Based on how that performs, we're planning on then moving FT to a new, and more powerful server, and off the one we've obviously overgrown.
So, stick with us as you've been, and know that we are indeed working on things behind the scenes. And thank you for continuing to give Michael and our other techs your patience as they wrestle equally with our slowdowns as well as trying to squeeze information from vendors.
Sep 17, 2001, 5:13 pm
#4
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1P; HHonors Silver
Posts: 2,686
Ugh. This is even worse than the four-way split. Hard to find things ... more clicks and more page views required to do anything. While I appreciate your efforts to address performance problems, this is a profound step in the wrong direction. Undo it ASAP!
Sep 17, 2001, 6:30 pm
#7
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Houston, Texas
Programs: CO Silver
Posts: 2,600
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by EPS:
Ugh. This is even worse than the four-way split. Hard to find things ... more clicks and more page views required to do anything. While I appreciate your efforts to address performance problems, this is a profound step in the wrong direction. Undo it ASAP!</font>
Ugh. This is even worse than the four-way split. Hard to find things ... more clicks and more page views required to do anything. While I appreciate your efforts to address performance problems, this is a profound step in the wrong direction. Undo it ASAP!</font>
Sep 17, 2001, 6:43 pm
#8
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The road less traveled
Programs: UA Gold MM, AA EXP, Delta Platinum, Marriott Titanium, HHonors Diamond, Natl EE, Hertz Platinum
Posts: 5,118
Dan, like others I really appreciate your efforts to get FlyerTalk back up and running. However, I do agree -- there HAS to be a better way. The goal should not only be speed, but efficiency as well. Everytime FlyerTalk makes a change to the way information is presented/organized, it disrupts how your users interact with the site. Honestly, it turns a lot of them off -- even if the change is for the better!
I've been in the interactive media design business for six years. Over the years, usability really has taken front stage above all else. If you really want this to work, would encourage you to study how FlyerTalkers use the forums before you chop it up into separate pieces.
Let me give you an example. Here's the way I use FlyerTalk: In the address field I type in "http://www.flyertalk.com/milesfr.shtml" and hit enter. This brings me (or used to bring me) to the main page with all the forums on it. I scroll down the list and right-click-"open in new window" all the forums I frequent. That's just a couple of clicks to get exactly where I want to go.
What can be learned from my usability methods? I know exactly where I want to go, and I want to get there as efficiently as possible. For someone like me, the option to "customize" the Flyertalk experience would be valuable. It would be great, in my profile for example, to say -- OK, I frequent the MilesBuzz, United, Starwood, and Trip Report forums the most... let's have only those forums appear when I start up FlyerTalk. With that option enabled, as soon as I hit the FlyerTalk main page, bam!, there are those four forum links.
While I realize such an option may not be possible given the technology constraints you guys may have I'm suggesting it more as way you can study how users interact with the site, and then make changes that a) make it easier for them, and b) reduce the loads on teh server/make FlyerTalk run faster.
Whew!
------------------
"What do you mean you didn't get miles for that?!"
I've been in the interactive media design business for six years. Over the years, usability really has taken front stage above all else. If you really want this to work, would encourage you to study how FlyerTalkers use the forums before you chop it up into separate pieces.
Let me give you an example. Here's the way I use FlyerTalk: In the address field I type in "http://www.flyertalk.com/milesfr.shtml" and hit enter. This brings me (or used to bring me) to the main page with all the forums on it. I scroll down the list and right-click-"open in new window" all the forums I frequent. That's just a couple of clicks to get exactly where I want to go.
What can be learned from my usability methods? I know exactly where I want to go, and I want to get there as efficiently as possible. For someone like me, the option to "customize" the Flyertalk experience would be valuable. It would be great, in my profile for example, to say -- OK, I frequent the MilesBuzz, United, Starwood, and Trip Report forums the most... let's have only those forums appear when I start up FlyerTalk. With that option enabled, as soon as I hit the FlyerTalk main page, bam!, there are those four forum links.
While I realize such an option may not be possible given the technology constraints you guys may have I'm suggesting it more as way you can study how users interact with the site, and then make changes that a) make it easier for them, and b) reduce the loads on teh server/make FlyerTalk run faster.
Whew!
------------------
"What do you mean you didn't get miles for that?!"
Sep 17, 2001, 6:52 pm
#9
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 41,991
Add me to the list of those opposed. I find step 1 particularly troubling, not because it represents a change (some changes are for the better), but because it adds yet another layer -- more clicks, more waiting -- to a site that worked quite well with just two layers several months back.
Sep 17, 2001, 6:58 pm
#10
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Florida USA
Programs: DL-MM/FC/FO AA-EXP/MM Starwood-Platinum Marriott-Platinum Hilton-Gold Hyatt-Diamond
Posts: 1,515
Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad
Nice attempt though!
I will find it very annoying to have to climb out to the top in order to enter another area....
How about a "My FT" where we can set the forums each of us use on a regular basis and those are the only ones pulled up upon first entry.. From there we would have to navigate to less often visited groups.
TW
Nice attempt though!
I will find it very annoying to have to climb out to the top in order to enter another area....
How about a "My FT" where we can set the forums each of us use on a regular basis and those are the only ones pulled up upon first entry.. From there we would have to navigate to less often visited groups.
TW
Sep 17, 2001, 8:55 pm
#11
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Houston, Texas
Programs: CO Silver
Posts: 2,600
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tolarian Wind:
How about a "My FT" where we can set the forums each of us use on a regular basis and those are the only ones pulled up upon first entry.. From there we would have to navigate to less often visited groups.
TW</font>
How about a "My FT" where we can set the forums each of us use on a regular basis and those are the only ones pulled up upon first entry.. From there we would have to navigate to less often visited groups.
TW</font>
Sep 17, 2001, 9:13 pm
#12
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: (SNA) Orange County, California USA
Posts: 3,641
Thank you for your efforts. Your good intentions are appreciated.
Unless I don't understand something, it now takes extra steps to get to the first word of an actual thread. And I have less selection at any given time without having to load multiple topic pages. And that takes more time. A lot more!
Something's not right.
I'm enjoying FlyerTalk less.
Something's not right.
Unless I don't understand something, it now takes extra steps to get to the first word of an actual thread. And I have less selection at any given time without having to load multiple topic pages. And that takes more time. A lot more!
Something's not right.
I'm enjoying FlyerTalk less.
Something's not right.
Sep 18, 2001, 1:28 am
#13
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC, AA, UA, BA, Hilton
Posts: 2,907
Gotta go with the dissenters here. Extra clicking and looking for threads. Plus, why now on the "Hop To" drop down area at the bottom of some forums, is it so wide that you now have to move the screen over to get to the "go" button? No consistancy there, and extra steps.
bj-21.
P.S.--Really like the "My FT" idea. Customising the forums to leave out the one's we don't usually read would save some time.
[This message has been edited by blackjack-21 (edited 09-18-2001).]
bj-21.
P.S.--Really like the "My FT" idea. Customising the forums to leave out the one's we don't usually read would save some time.
[This message has been edited by blackjack-21 (edited 09-18-2001).]
Sep 18, 2001, 2:36 am
#14
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,223
Hi Michael
I've been quite frustrated with the speed on flyertalk, and I have alot of experience with these types of problems, so I hope I can help you.
The first thing: there are a number of tools which can monitor the responsiveness of a connection and the responsiveness of the server (page server and/or DB) and show you where there's a problem. Many of these tools are free or part of the standard hosting software. You should get these tools and install them... so at least then when you have problems you wont sit wondering where the problem is. Most packages even provide alerting, so you know right away when a problem appears.
Second, it seems obvious now that the main problem is with the server being overloaded (not bandwidth).
There are basically four reasons why this could happen:
- processor overload
- not enough RAM (given the corruption occuring, this seems a likely cause)
- poor configuration (cache, etc)
- unnecessary load (having programs running that dont need to be running, or trojans/viruses taking resources).
For each one there are a number of solutions.
The easiest and fastest solution is probably to add more RAM and processors to your server, assuming it is upgradeable. This is not nearly as expensive as you might imagine, especially if you buy the components on e-bay. For $500 you might be able to solve all your problems today. If you have questions about what you might need, please tell me the configuration of your server and I'll try to help. Another solution is to change the server altogether. You might even want to consider moving Flyertalk to a 3rd party hosting center utilizing a cluster. Granted all this costs money, but you make money from banners and when users cannot get onto flyertalk, you are losing that revenue, so it also costs you money not to fix these problems.
Poor configuration is more difficult to fix because you should know how to tune the server. You can hire somebody to do this, but unless it is really badly tuned or you have an inhouse person who knows how to tune the server, it is often cheaper to just overcome this problem by throwing hardware upgrades at it.
Unnecessary load I have seen many times, and it is mainly a result of bad practices. If you are running an NT server make sure of the following: run a virus checker to ensure that there is no virus or trojan hogging resources. Shut down any services you absolutely dont need. Make sure you ALWAYS logout (not just lock the console) after working, as an open console (even locked) uses resources. If you are running Unix/Solaris/SunOS tell me and I can give you other advice.
Hope this helps.
Ron Lewin
I've been quite frustrated with the speed on flyertalk, and I have alot of experience with these types of problems, so I hope I can help you.
The first thing: there are a number of tools which can monitor the responsiveness of a connection and the responsiveness of the server (page server and/or DB) and show you where there's a problem. Many of these tools are free or part of the standard hosting software. You should get these tools and install them... so at least then when you have problems you wont sit wondering where the problem is. Most packages even provide alerting, so you know right away when a problem appears.
Second, it seems obvious now that the main problem is with the server being overloaded (not bandwidth).
There are basically four reasons why this could happen:
- processor overload
- not enough RAM (given the corruption occuring, this seems a likely cause)
- poor configuration (cache, etc)
- unnecessary load (having programs running that dont need to be running, or trojans/viruses taking resources).
For each one there are a number of solutions.
The easiest and fastest solution is probably to add more RAM and processors to your server, assuming it is upgradeable. This is not nearly as expensive as you might imagine, especially if you buy the components on e-bay. For $500 you might be able to solve all your problems today. If you have questions about what you might need, please tell me the configuration of your server and I'll try to help. Another solution is to change the server altogether. You might even want to consider moving Flyertalk to a 3rd party hosting center utilizing a cluster. Granted all this costs money, but you make money from banners and when users cannot get onto flyertalk, you are losing that revenue, so it also costs you money not to fix these problems.
Poor configuration is more difficult to fix because you should know how to tune the server. You can hire somebody to do this, but unless it is really badly tuned or you have an inhouse person who knows how to tune the server, it is often cheaper to just overcome this problem by throwing hardware upgrades at it.
Unnecessary load I have seen many times, and it is mainly a result of bad practices. If you are running an NT server make sure of the following: run a virus checker to ensure that there is no virus or trojan hogging resources. Shut down any services you absolutely dont need. Make sure you ALWAYS logout (not just lock the console) after working, as an open console (even locked) uses resources. If you are running Unix/Solaris/SunOS tell me and I can give you other advice.
Hope this helps.
Ron Lewin
Sep 18, 2001, 3:13 am
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Posts: 10,077
Board seems very speedy right now (check the time) with a modem connection.
No real performance issues (yet) with the new front page of FT Miles. However, from a user-friendly standpoint, I have to agree with previous posts: pretty bad.
I can still wing my way around because I work on a computer all day and explain to clients how to do the same. If I were a new visitor, or someone less comfortable with a PC interface, I would definitely feel a bit lost and probably throw my hands up in frustration and miss out on a lot of good information.
Thank you for your continued efforts.
No real performance issues (yet) with the new front page of FT Miles. However, from a user-friendly standpoint, I have to agree with previous posts: pretty bad.
I can still wing my way around because I work on a computer all day and explain to clients how to do the same. If I were a new visitor, or someone less comfortable with a PC interface, I would definitely feel a bit lost and probably throw my hands up in frustration and miss out on a lot of good information.
Thank you for your continued efforts.