TAP - Security Breach Cockpit Visit

Old Jul 22, 17, 10:31 am
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TAP - Security Breach Cockpit Visit

July 21 TP259 flight from Lisbon to Toronto.

Flying in Business Class, just prior to taking off one of the cabin crew (an older gentleman with a tablet who was wearing glasses and was not a flight attendant - I believe he was the person in-charge) came and spoke with the passenger seated in 3E and he took him into the cockpit. A few moments later the passenger (3E) came and spoke with the passenger in 1B (they appeared to be related father and son) and they both entered the cockpit and didn't emerge from the cockpit until the aircraft had taken-off and the seatbelt sign was turned off.

I believe this action to be illegal and can’t understand why TAP would allow this serious security breach to happen.

Can anyone confirm if this is against aviation security regulations?

I have filed a complaint with TAP along with Portuguese and Canadian aviation authorities.
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Old Jul 22, 17, 10:39 am
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Why would it be illegal?
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Old Jul 22, 17, 11:16 am
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Originally Posted by Fredrik74 View Post
Why would it be illegal?
I'm not certain if it is or isn't. Was hoping someone would shed some light on that.

I am certain it's against TAP corporate policy for security reasons, especially during take-off and landing.
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Old Jul 22, 17, 11:17 am
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Originally Posted by imverge View Post
I have filed a complaint with TAP along with Portuguese and Canadian aviation authorities.
I find it impressive that you've filed a complaint without knowing that something is actually a violation.
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Old Jul 22, 17, 11:20 am
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Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
I find it impressive that you've filed a complaint without knowing that something is actually a violation.
Well, I'll soon find out.
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Old Jul 22, 17, 11:32 am
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Originally Posted by imverge View Post
Well, I'll soon find out.
The time to voice your concern as publicly spirited individual was when the the incident happened, or when the flight landed.

Raising the issue now, through an internet chatroom, while seeking to out the flight attendant through his description is .. well, not very nice.
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Old Jul 22, 17, 11:40 am
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Originally Posted by IAN-UK View Post
The time to voice your concern as publicly spirited individual was when the the incident happened, or when the flight landed.

Raising the issue now, through an internet chatroom, while seeking to out the flight attendant through his description is .. well, not very nice.
Outing the FA would be posting their name or better yet a photo.
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Old Jul 22, 17, 11:46 am
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Originally Posted by imverge View Post
Outing the FA would be posting their name or better yet a photo.
Is there a grown-up around that you can get to explain the point to you then?

Let's make it simple: you should have opened your mouth at the time instead of hiding behind the internet like a little kid peeping out from behind their mother's skirt.
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Old Jul 22, 17, 11:56 am
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There's a similar thread on the El Al forum right now. Not sure about Portuguese aviation law but in most countries that sort of thing is at the Captain's discretion. I have been invited into the cockpit on El Al by the captain who was a friend of a friend. I sat in the jump seat for landing at JFK. I have a friend who's a captain on AA and I'm sure if I ever ended up on one of his flights that I'd be invited up there too.

That said, I'm glad you're not my neighbor as you seem like the type who would call the city to complain if my grass got too long.
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Old Jul 22, 17, 11:59 am
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Originally Posted by IAN-UK View Post
The time to voice your concern as publicly spirited individual was when the the incident happened, or when the flight landed.

Raising the issue now, through an internet chatroom, while seeking to out the flight attendant through his description is .. well, not very nice.
To be fair to OP, he does say he has filed a complaint with both TAP and the aviation authorities, so it's not like he's simply moaning on FT.

Whether or not there are any grounds for complaint I don't know.
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Old Jul 22, 17, 12:04 pm
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Um, how do you know he/they weren't other TAP pilots?
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Old Jul 22, 17, 12:10 pm
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Originally Posted by imverge View Post
I believe this action to be illegal and can’t understand why TAP would allow this serious security breach to happen.

Can anyone confirm if this is against aviation security regulations?

I have filed a complaint with TAP along with Portuguese and Canadian aviation authorities.

I believe this is not illegal and is purely at the captain's digression - usually reserved for friends and family of TP pilots/mechanics.

There was no security breach, as only authorized people may be in the cockpit, and the captain has the authority to make this authorization. Other (mostly legacy) airlines in Europe also allow this sort of thing.

In the US, this is expressly prohibited, and pilots will lose their license if an unauthorized person enters the cockpit. A captain flying a US-based airline does not have the authority to make this sort of authorization.

Nothing to see here, moving right along.
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Old Jul 22, 17, 12:15 pm
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Originally Posted by imverge View Post
I believe this action to be illegal and can’t understand why TAP would allow this serious security breach to happen.
I have filed a complaint with TAP along with Portuguese and Canadian aviation authorities.
Originally Posted by imverge View Post
I am certain it's against TAP corporate policy for security reasons, especially during take-off and landing.
Seriously?
You don't have a clue about Portugese aviation regulations nor TAP corporate policy.
You just ignorantly assume that they are the same as Canada and Air Canada.
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Old Jul 22, 17, 12:25 pm
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Originally Posted by Palal View Post

In the US, this is expressly prohibited, and pilots will lose their license if an unauthorized person enters the cockpit. A captain flying a US-based airline does not have the authority to make this sort of authorization.
Is that true? If so must be a relatively recent rule change. When I was doing pilot training the pilot pretty much had discretion to do whatever he/she wanted - hence the often crazy stories you hear about pilots removing pax from flights before takeoff because a crew member complains.
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Old Jul 22, 17, 3:18 pm
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Originally Posted by Silver Fox View Post
Is there a grown-up around that you can get to explain the point to you then?

Let's make it simple: you should have opened your mouth at the time instead of hiding behind the internet like a little kid peeping out from behind their mother's skirt.
I'm not hiding behind the internet. I contacted TAP about my concern and I have heard of a FAA term called Sterile Cockpit when below 10,000FT.

In contacting TAP they have full disclosure of who I am and what my concern is.

Last edited by imverge; Jul 22, 17 at 3:34 pm Reason: spelling
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