Proposal: Split UA into multiple child forums
 

I don't know about anybody else, but I find it difficult to follow the UA forum.

Maybe the talk board should consider creating multiple child forums inside the UA forum. The cut on that will be the difficult part, but here's some suggestions:

UA Forum
- Complaints about UA Management
- Complaints about UA gate agents
- Complaints about the ICCs
- Complaints about UA ticketing agents
- Complaints about late flights
- Complaints about lost baggage
- Complaints about ramp personal
- Complaints about how UA screwed me
- Complaints about high fares
- Complaints about low fares
- Complaints about NC/NF/XC/XF availability
- Complaints about how my upgrade didn't clear. (includes all "will my upgrade clear" questions).
- Complaints about matrons
- Complaints about pilots refusing to turn on channel 9
- Complaints about IAD
- Complaints about flying in Ted configured aircraft
- Complaints about anything not covered elsewhere
- Everything else

ok, that list was joke, but please read the rest of this for the real proposal

hahaha, ok, but I'm really serious, only the talk board will have to figure out how to make the cut.

For one thing, I would really like to see anything MP related in one child forum, and anything not MP related in another. You can fine tune it any way you want to to make it easier on the mods, but it's impossible to keep up now. If anybody is really interested I can try to come up with a better cut, or other people can make suggestions.

Or has this come up before and been rejected?

-David

As an occasional UA forum visitor, may I ask whether it really is as bad as it's made out to be? Sure I can appreciate it's one of the busiest forums on FT so there is bound to be some oft repeated topics or a seemingly frequent complaint issues but I don't have that much trouble allowing for those realities when surfing this forum. It all depends on what you're looking for or how much time you spend on the UA forum, but it doesn't seem the waking nightmare your describe, at least it doesn't IMHO FWIW.

The only logical division I can see is between miles discussion and non-miles discussion. Even that division is somewhat artificial. Even if things were bad enough to consider this, I doubt that the cure would be better than the disease.

Topic filters a la fatwallet would help you, but our vbulletin software is different from what they use.

If you see a serious problem, have a private discussion with the moderators of the forum. If they agree with you, you might set up a plan of action whereby you Report Bad Post on complaints and other threads that should be merged into existing threads.

Limiting the proliferation of new threads on similar topics improves forum readability for people whose interest is more focused. However this is a lot of work for the moderators. Having reliable extra sets of eyes reporting the need for merging threads is a huge help for the mods. My current co-moderator curbcrusher did this for me for years.

I'm a regular on the UA forum, and I agree with the OP that the same topics do tend to come up again and again in slightly different iterations. And since there are only a finite number of MP-related topics, the discussion does tend to drift toward the airline more than it does the FFP.

But I do NOT agree with the implication that UA forum has become untied[dot]com. There is some grousing, sure, but lots of informative and helpful things about the United experience as well, even in the complaint threads!

I think the Mods to a pretty good job of merging mega-issues (like the 'upgrades are getting harder to get' thread) while letting other similar but distinct threads run their natural course.

Overall, I don't really see it as broken. It just requires a little more patience than some other forums.

What is tough to keep up on in that forum? I visit that forum regularly... and have no problems. Posters are pretty good about having descriptive titles, the moderators do a great job of merging like subjects... and other members are quick to try and help (usually!). If there is a certain thread you think needs to be merged, use the "Report Bad Post" feature. I have found the UA mods to be quick in responding.

For the life of me, I cannot understand the need for entire forums for every category of complaint. Isn't that overkill?

William

Seems fine the way it is.

Maybe you should post that in the new Meta-Complaints forum. @:-)

J/K.

Writing as an individual UA forum moderator, let me offer a few points, without wanting to influence the outcome of the OP's views:
1) We're an extremely active forum. Often an entire page of threads represents just two hours of forum activity and we'll often have 250+ readers and members on line. Members really want to discuss this airline's operations and programs!

2) We find that many posts cross over somewhat any standard set of topics; so no matter how broadly or finely one would create topic sub-headings, there will inevitably be some spillover of subjects discussed in a thread. We aim to the goals, among others, of keeping the discussion on topic and having the thread moving within a direction that will help members.

3) Specifically as to nsx's point as to thread mergers, our members' wishes range the gamut from having no mergers ever to merging everything whenever possible. A number of members regularly let us know about merger candidates so we have no shortage of members to help us there. We seek to implement a merger protocol that will balance: the ability to find threads efficiently, the avoidance of too much clutter on this very busy forum, but also the recognition that some threads may present different enough variations justifying stand-alone status. It's definitely an art and judgment calls are involved.

Although Mr. Ocn Vw 1K wrote this as an individual UA Mod without our feedback or opinion, he eloquently represents my view 100 percent.

My thanks to him. ^

I forgot that the busy forums have an embarrassment of riches with RBPs. On the Southwest and JetBlue forums, we are lucky to get just one or two RBPs flagging a problem, so we encourage RBPs. On a busy forum, that could be too much of a good thing.

The OP is apparently in the category of members who would prefer more merging. The mods try to strike a balance that suits most members, and I believe they succeed.

At high traffic levels, it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain usability of the forum. That's why some sites have user-configurable topic filtering. Filtering might allow the user to mask most complaint threads, but we have to wait until vbulletin gives us that capability.

The list of all the complaint subforums was a joke. Maybe everybody didn't read through the OP to the end? (Some people that replied did, some didn't.)

The real proposal was to basically split it into 2 child forums, one MP-related only and one non MP-related only as a first cut. Finer divisions are possible, but they may not be desirable, especially when the topics start overlapping multiple child forums.

I really think a reasonable division would be one child forum for anything mileage related, and one for everything else.

Filtering only works if the subjects are very specific. Today you have no idea if a topic is going to be about a mileage earning question or opportunity vs an issue or question about a flight, equipment, upgrade, etc. Some people are better than others when it comes to naming their topics. And, yes, the mods try to do a good job, but the forum is so popular and busy, I'm sure it's hard for the mods to keep up with every post. By the time they merge a thread, or fix a topic name, etc, there's 20 more new threads.

I used to try to keep up with the UA forum on a daily basis, but I've given up, because it's just not possible unless you have several hours a day to devote to it.

Sure, there's something to be said for keeping things as they are, but I think we can do better, hence my suggestion.

At any rate, at least the debate is interesting, and it's good to hear from the moderators of that forum for their perspective.

-David

I see such a forum split as destroying some synergy. Therefore it would be a last resort when the forum got too big to be readable by the members and too big for the mods to manage. I hope and expect that vbulletin will give us the tools we need to maintain usability long before that point.

Besides, if the airlines keep devaluing the programs, the traffic on FT will stop growing! :p

Yeah, it would be but that part of the OP was intended as humor, please read the rest of it.

Thanks,
David

Filtering would certainly include one option for mileage-related and one option for travel-related. So each user could create his own sub-forum based on his own preference. That's why filtering is better than splitting a forum. Rather than move a topic, mods can simply attach filter tags.

Take it for what it's worth, but again, that part of the OP was a joke, the real proposal is at the bottom of the OP. I really wasn't implying anything. There are gazillions of complaints posted in the UA forum. Is it untied? I don't think so. Is there useful information posted in the UA forum? You betcha. I want to be able to find it easier.

Thanks for your consideration.

-David

Well, I would assume that if you did as child forums, you could apply a filter to the parent forum and that would include all child forums, right? So what do you lose by splitting it into MP-related and non-MP related child forums?

But as you pointed out, we don't have this type of filtering. Also, even if we did, it really would depend on the mods tagging every thread properly.

JMHO, and it's ok if we disagree.

-David

As someone who usually checks the UA forum at least once a day, I've never had a problem skimming the threads to see what I might want to open. Even when I'm offline for a few days, I don't find it cumbersome to navigate.

By "child" forums I'm assuming you mean sub-forums?

It does get tedious, doesn't it?

A sub-forum for those who need to complain would be helpful, imo.

yes, I think so. I don't know the right term for it, I guess.

-David

Isn't that what OMNI & ORP are for? :p

Seriously, seems to me a shame to contemplate a sub-forum just for b*tching about UA and sets an unfortunate precedent it would seem hard to deny later to other forums.

It's been done before with the MR forum being split in two with the MR Discussion forum being a subordinate sub-forum before later being granted its own forumhood, if that's a word.

I have NO problem whatsoever w/ the UA forum as it is, and am a bit confused on why there is perceived to be a problem. Heck, if complaints re: a program is an issue, basically EVERY forum on FT would get shut down (at least the hotel/airline ones). Duh...

BTW - word I heard is AA is the rudest ;)

Cheers.

Yep, and the photography forum and luggage forums were split out of travel tech, and at one time we had a "general travel talk" forum too. Thanks for reminding us.

But any talk of change to the UA forum to try to make it make it better and more manageable seems to bring out the best in people. hahaha. "please don't change me. I'm used to the way it is now." :D

Sharon: no more computer help for you. hahaha. My proposal was basically MR-realated and non-MR-related sub-forums. Or any cut on it that the talk board wanted to propose or try. I think anything will be better than this huge monolithic thing we have now.

BTW, I think cblaisd's suggestion had some merit too.

-David

examples
 

ok, I re-read the post on how to suggest new forums.

Looking at the first page of threads in the UA forum, with my settings, here's a sample of topics, and how we might sort them. I ignored sticky posts and moved posts. Is this a good enough random sample?


United - Mileage Plus Related Discussion (Anything directly or indirectly related to Mileage earning, use, questions, and program benefits.)

United - Discussions that are unrelated to Mileage Plus (Service related questions, issues, upgrades, baggage, and anything not related to the Mileage Plus program).It wasn't that hard to sort them, and I don't think there were any difficult grey area posts in that batch. (ok, maybe I made a judgment call on the Priority Pass/RCC one, not sure. I'm sure there will be some judgment calls, just like there are today.) These would be the first two new sub-forums of the united forum.

I'm not proposing that we move any existing posts into the sub-forums, but all new posts should be posted to the sub-forums. It will be up to the mods to move existing active threads into the sub-forums if they want to and decide to.

The benefit of the new sub-forums would be to make it much easier for people that want to follow only the MP-related sub-forum much easier for them to do so, without getting bogged down in all the other stuff. We can all read the other stuff too, if we want to, and I will when I have time, but I want to be able to keep up with any MP related promos, etc, in one easy to use sub-forum.

nsx, I'm not sure how fatwallet style filtering would help me here with this real world example.

-David

Anyway, can I interest any of the TB members in championing this proposal?

I really think that it will make FT a better place. Yes, it's change. Don't be afraid of change. :)

-David

Not me, I'm afraid. I'm all for change when it is warranted (I think if you look at the list of TB votes that's kept in a thread around here somewhere you'll see that I rarely vote 'no' to changes), but in this case I simply don't see it as warranted.

As I say, there is only so much talk about MP one can do. But there is infinite talk possible about the UA experience. If you want the MP PhDs to keep coming to the UA forum to talk about MP when issues come up, you have to let them talk about the UA experience in the meantime.

If I thought the balance or tone ever tilted toward Untied I'd be the first to support somethig like this. But imho it hasn't, and the mods have done an excellent job of merging the right topic threads.

JMHO.

I'm still not sure you read the entire OP or the entire thread, because you are reading stuff into this that just isn't there. From your previous reply in this thread it was obvious you didn't read the entire OP.

I thought FT was supposed to be about miles and points. Since I can't seem to get that information in the UA forum anymore, I don't spend hours and hours sifting through the threads to get it.

And there's nothing in the proposal to stop any sort of posts. I'm just asking that they be categorized into sub-forums. one specifically for MP related threads and one for everything else. Or any split that separates the MP related posts and discussion from everything else, like was done in the Mileage Run forum.

-David

How about adding prefixes to the thread title? I know a couple of forum are using them. While they are not always used, BMI offers a variety of prefix options (Newbie Question, Redemption Help, DC Partner, Promo, DC Partner, Call Centre, Rant, OT). Perhaps similar prefixes would help users skim the UA forum for relevant threads without setting up a subforum.

I'm not in favor of sub-forums in general as I don't think they make either the Mod.'s workload easier nor improve the casual surfer's experience as much as proponents expect. Both newbies and veterans unfamiliar with the change aren't always quick to grasp the subtle distinction about where topics should go as is witnessed regularly on the MR forum with threads that are posted there which are more appropriate to the MR Discussion forum.

Just MHO.

If most of the potential users of the UA forum felt as you do, it would probably be time for a split. The split you suggest is the most logical way to do it. At some point that will be what happens, unless filtering tools become available in the meantime. The question is whether now is the time.

What makes this so hard to decide is that the current users of the forum probably prefer it the way it is. People who find it unusable have already left, or never stayed after their initial visit. Therefore we have to guess whether the change would increase or decrease the value of FT to future users. If a substantial percentage of current forum users (meaning the people who didn't give up and leave) is in favor of a split, I would find that persuasive.

Why not use the polling feature and see if that is really the case?

"I shouldn't have to vote in the poll. I'm a GS. This is preposterous and I want someone fired."

I read the proposal and appreciate the thought and effort you put into it. ^

But while FT is 'about points and miles,' ever since the very first days of FT it has also been about the flying/hotel/travel experience. My very first post on the United forum on May 13, 1998, at 9:19am (back when my name was my handle), which was among the very first posts in that forum ever, was about BOTH MP as well as the United experience.

To me, they are so intertwined that I think there would have to be, as I keep saying, Untied-type garbage to usefulness ratio before I'd want to ask the moderators to split the baby in half.

But, again, that's just me. There are 8 other TB members...

Gang,

We ask that people stay on topic. Some posts have been deleted that are not related to the member proposal.

William

I know that I do not want to have to visit two different forums for information on United Airlines. I appreciate having everything United in one forum.

In addition, I am not a fan of subforums... it causes problems on showing newest posts on the front screens.

what he said. ^

Do you only visit one forum on FT today?

Why bother with forums at all? We can just post everything in one giant unsorted pool.

-David

I'm not aware of those problems. New posts are new posts. Are the problems related to the way vbulletin is implemented here, or something else?

-David

I suspect I have made more posts on the UA forum than any other FT'er has.

If it ain't broke .......................... @:-)

Glen
.

hahaha, Glen. No offense, but a few years ago I would have said you are the poster child for why something like this is needed. I guess you've mellowed out since then. I don't know, I don't get to read many of your posts these days.

-David