Hey guys, all we are trying to do here is get input--you know, "What do you think of this? How about that?"

There is plenty of room in the brainstorming stage of any plan, for everybody's ideas to get heard and politely considered. If everybody concentrates on throwing their own good ideas into the pot, and restrains themself from trashing their neighbor's ideas, we might come up with some really kick-butt plans in the end.

Gang,

Just a friendly reminder that the subject of this thread is Input/Feedback Requested On Expanded "Smile" Choices for FlyerTalk."

Image monitoring team? We're to have moderators and... image moderators? You could say it the other way just as easily; post monitors and image monitors. Either way, is creating such a body within the purview of talkboard?

I know avatars are used elsewhere. I use them elsewhere. I simply don't feel them appropriate for FT. I would support their use if I could turn them off. I understand others may wish to have them and I firmly believe they shouldn't be denied simply because I don't like them.

Setting that aside as it's not relevant to smilies; I would love to see an expanded collection of smilies. I do think the animated smilies add quite a lot to the discourse and have many times wished I could use them here. How did we get from smilies to avatars again?

No, FT is about community. Points and miles are nice, but nobody would stay for JUST that.

So, let's add to the smilies. Unlike avatars, an expanded smilie choice (non-animated) would add no potential strain to the existing environment.

I see this very differently. I believe FT is so successful because it has remained largely true to its mission -- it's the place to come to increase your knowledge about the use of miles and points and the companies and their products that are the vehicle for earning & burning them.

For me, that is the reason I am here. And I dare say the vast majority of members (those who don't even read forums like this one, or show up at 'Dos'), would view the source of their motivation for being here the same way.

As for input on this particular idea, I see it as an enormous waste of time and energy. I'd much prefer the TalkBoard focus on issues that enhance the core mission of FlyerTalk, and I have a hard time seeing how an expanded range of smilies does that. Come on, people! :confused:

I completely support this members comments on this issue and share his thoughts on why FlyerTalk is what it is.

We're at post #200 just soliciting feedback for the idea. I say we simply leave it up to the next elected TalkBoard since it will likely take that long deciding which emoticons would make up the enhanced list.

I back the movement of moving on to topics that do support the core mission of this community.

By your logic, we should get rid of OMNI, TBuzz, all the "Travel with..." forums, etc. Afterall, travelling with children is not necessary to discussing miles and points, so we should get rid of that forum.

I don't see how adding more smilies detracts or prevents you from discussing miles and points.

my guess, and it is only a guess is that some or most or all of the Mods may have concerns about this expansion of emoticons based upon their personal experiences over and over gain with interupting the food fights that already occur when members choose to comment on a post with nothing more than a "frowning" smilie. The negative inferences that some of these emoticons can cause is something i have seen over and over again and adding additional images that could be mistrued is not anything i would want to see added to this burden. As well, we already have had problems with members like BenjaminNYC and others who misuse these emoticons to take up several lines of distraction when posting - ever seen 5 lines of smilies as part of a post reply? Well, it is distracting and yes, something that the volunteers have to clean up.

Again, my comments are a balance of what i have seen and experienced, something that the regular member of FlyerTalk may not be all that observant to and would not have had to referee the results.

Randy, I truly support the expression of your opinion here.

I hope you will not be offended if I give your opinion exactly the weight I give any other member's opinion. After all, as I have been reminded, you are a member first and foremost.

To me, FlyerTalk will always be about community first and foremost with a side dish of miles and points. I'd be bored silly otherwise. I know others feel that way, too, and I don't think those members, many of whom are quite helpful in the points and miles forums, should be marginalized by being told what FT should be to them.

As for the original topic:

As far as smilies go, I hope that animated smilies are either not allowed or there is a mechanism in place to turn such things off if they are allowed as part of the package. It would be visually unappealing for me to have to watch smilies moving about as I'm trying to read the board. Learning about points and miles of course.

Which begs the questions, why are Avatars being proposed in a thread about smilies?

I used to think that until the TalkBoard debate last month changed my mind. People will find a way to talk about what they want to talk about, and it's better to give them a place to do so. It reduces the moderation workload in the points and miles forums.

Actually that's not what I said. This is not the first time you have tried to put words in my mouth, and I would appreciate if you wold refrain from it.

Intellectual honesty alert. I actually said:

I specifically said avatars, you cut up my quote and then insinuated I was talking about smilies. It's intellectually dishonest, and I do not appreciate it. You then employed another very common logical fallacy of debate (slippery slope) and insinuated I'd want to close a bunch of forums. Can you explain to me (and others) why you chose that course of action?

Now, to your point (such as it is): as a member, I'm happy that we have "travel with xxx" and "travel technology" and such. If OMNI were to shut (Again), I would not be terribly upset but don't feel strongly enough to lobby as such.

To your second point about the smilies: Randy has already addressed this: they are abused in ways that do nothing except incite animosity and contribute to the noise factor on FT with the current smiley set. I am a fan of signal and volunteer my time to help enhance FT's signal to noise ratio: as such, I'm pretty sure that adding extra smilies will lower that ratio. I don't want that to happen.

And I'm certain it (S/N ratio falling) will happen with avatars. (bolded to deter those compelled to take out of context)

I didn't say you would want to close the forums. I said that if we follow your logic (keeping the focus on miles and points) then there is no place for those other forums. I don't have children, and I don't like children, so I don't see how the Travel With Children forum benefits the purpose of miles and points ("noise" as you call it).


So you are opposed to smilies, and apperently to change of any kind. You think that adding more smilies would make your job (as a moderator) more difficult, so you're opposed to it without any type of trial or discussion. This is exactly why I made the point during election time about mods having no place on the TB. Your position as a mod does not permit you to be open-minded about making changes that could beneift members and make the board better.

Interesting you make such a huge deal about context and how you never mentioned smilies, and then you proceed to say the same thing about smilies above.

I believe it is an extention of the original request... ways to personally "enhance" a post... so I see it as on topic.

William

You never did answer the actual question. If "you" follow "your" interpretation of "your" cut up and intellectually dishonest version of what I said, then "maybe" one can arrive at "your" conclusion.

You never did explain how "you" managed to arrive at "your" conclusion by taking "my" words and basically changing them.

So when you want to address something I actually said versus what you want others to believe I said, I'll be happy to respond. In the interim, I really can't because I cannot debate what you completely made up from thin air.


Not at all. I oppose changes which introduce noise instead of adding/enhancing signal. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Well gee, Wilbur, I think it, other mods think it, the board host thinks it. As a user, I think that one-line smiley "bangs" are equally as stupid. Unlike most users, they (by virtue of their use and abuse) make my personal FT experience less useful in two ways: detracting from my experience as a member and making my task as a moderator harder. So yes, I'm opposed to it.

What value do extra smilies add to Flyertalk. Will you leave if you don't get them?

Again--will you leave if you don't get your smilies? I doubt it.

Will said smilies cause additional bandwidth usage for IB, clutter the experience for other users, and make FT more difficult to moderate? Yes.

So, let's get this "benefit member" stuff and put it in context (and try not to remove the context to respond to it).

I make a big deal because your entire message here has been to insinuate I said "black" when I really said "white" and then try to crucify me for saying "black." Absent logical fallacies of debate and dishonest use of quoting, we could probably distill these posts down for a factor of 2 (and add more signal, while reducing noise.). ^