Forum Proposal: Ask FlyerTalk
 

(PLEASE NOTE THIS IS AN OLD THREAD BUMPED FOR RECONSIDERATION. NEW DISCUSSION BEGINS AFTER POST 26)

We are faced with two competing goals on FlyerTalk today. One camp says topics should go to the most frequently used boards because that's the only place they'll be read, and another says topics should always go directly to the specific forum, as that's the only way information will be accessible to future seachers.

I propose that we create a forum to balance both these goals: Ask FlyerTalk. This forum would be prominently placed in the forum hierarchy and invite questions from members on any travel-related topic covered on our board. The difference would be that after 3 days, a moderator would ALWAYS move the thread to the proper forum for future searches and more in-depth responses from forum regulars in particular localities. Non-question, metadiscussion, or OMNI topics would be moved or closed immediately

With such a forum, members who do not frequent lesser-trafficed forums today would be able to see and repsond to questions about which they have information, and more people would be introduced to those forums as they follow topics to their proper home.

I think many of us have traveled to a lot of destinations and used a lot of different travel products but can't visit all of the forums. While I would never subscribe to a Singapore forum, for example, I have been there enough times to have valuable input on a posters questions about a number of topics. I would subscribe to Ask FlyerTalk and then would be able to answer questions I would have otherwise missed.

Excellent idea, IMO. You have to wonder how many questions are asked in the various airline forums, for example, that aren't specific to that airline and could be answered by many FT'ers. But, as you state, few of us visit every forum so somebody with a helpful answer may never be matched with the question.
This might be a particular useful forum for new posters who may not have a clue exactly where to address specific questions.

Robb, two questions:

1. As I think that many of these threads might well be Omni-type, do you think it is opening a back door to let people post in Omni who have not otherwise met the qualifications?

2. How much work is it for a moderator to look at a thread, determine where it should go, and then transfer it? It the thread got about 200 posts a week, how many moderators would be required to handle the work without putting an unfair strain on them?

For some reason, I thought the 100-post limit had been removed from OMNI, but if not, we could surely just have a policy of closing all OMNI related posts to the forum. I'm more concerned that you think many posts would be OMNI in the first place. Maybe I've done a poor job presenting it and we would need to make sure it's really clear that it is not for OMNI-things from the beginning.

As for the moderators, it really shouldn't be much work for 2 (maybe 3) moderators (and I would volunteer to be one of them, so I'm pretty confident of the reasonable workload). The hard work of being a moderator is dealing with off-topic posts or guiding wandering topics or interpersonal issues. There would be no more of that here than anywhere else, and, in fact, most likely less. A mod would just pull up the list all threads older than 3 days and click it, move it, and move on. No followup emails, no hurt feelings, no need to explain.

I haven't read about the 100 post limit being removed, but you might be right. If it has been removed I would agree with you that this should not attract too many non-Omni type posts. If it hasn't been removed, I think it may serve as a magnet for would-be Omni posters (especially of the troll variety).

Thanks for the information about the moderators' workload. If it only takes a few seconds for each thread, that is one thing. I was afraid it would take closer to about 3 minutes per thread. At 200 threads a week (just a guess out of the air) that would give the board's moderators 10 hours work each week between them.

Remember also that it would lessen the workload on moderators of standing forums. They would get fewer questions posted in the wrong place in the first place and less work on that side.

Many of our moderators put in 10 hours per week (or even more in the case of the OMNI mods when we were in high-political season!) of volunteer time, and I see no reason to expect even this level to be unduly burdensome.

robb - great idea perhaps this will "introduce" members to forums that they might not usually visit or even know exists - however, I have 2 other suggestions that may or may not be appropriate:

1) perhaps instead of assigning a couple of moderators for this "forum", maybe all mods should have mod authority and "move" threads that are appropriate to their own forums while leaving "unclaimed" threads for the 2-3 mods that are assigned to actually manage the forum.

2) instead of waiting 3 days, perhaps the threads could be moved as soon as someone "claims" the thread, of course leaving a redirect so that people (especially the OP) knows where it went to. This way the question perhaps would be answered in a more timely manner.

I think this is a fantastic idea ^ ^

I know I often have to balance competing interests - wanting traffic to see my questions and wanting them to be in the right forum (which may not see very much traffic). Newbies seem to have trouble too, as they aren't always aware of all of the subfora.

I could see this being a problem, however, if people decided to start posting EVERY question in the "AFT" forum. But that could be dealt with, if it became a problem.

As for the moderator work, I'd volunteer.

The suggestion is now being discussed in the TalkBoard.

I think this is very real danger. This already seems to happen with TravelBuzz and MilesBuzz a lot (ergo this discussion and the one on DiningBuzz, I assume).

Also consider an alternative front page which lists more forums (or groups) and less information about each forum, possibly including only the name and number of new posts. Thus, when someone new went to www. flyertalk.com, they could see all of the major forums or groups on the same screen. The current front page should be kept at a slightly different URL so that those who are familiar with it and like it's format can link to it.

I've got to believe that if someone not too familiar with the site went to a "revised" FT homepage with a question on San Francisco and saw a link to a specific forum on San Francisco, they would go to that forum to pose their question. And if someone from San Francisco went to a revised FT homepage and saw that there were new mesages in that forum, they would check them out if time permitted. And no moderator time required. I appreciate the effort the moderators put into this site and suggest that refinements in the site try to steer users (both those with questions and those who may be able to provide answers) to the most appropriate forum rather than adding to the moderators' loads.

The big advantage of the proposed forum, from my perspective, is that frequent travelers to or residents of San Francisco who don't subscribe to the San Francisco forum will see and answer the question. They might then follow it to the SFO forum and see other topics on which they could contribute. Eventually, I think we'd see more traffic in the smaller forums as a result.

Great idea
 

For what it's worth, I think this is a brilliant idea. On the (many, many, many) times I've stumbled into a thread by accident, I've often been fascinated by what I've learned. I for one would check this forum daily for my job (part of which is writing TalkMail), but I'm sure tons of other FTers would get a kick out of it, too. I hope it's not too much work for you guys, and THANKS for all the effort you're putting into its possible creation already.



^

I realize that the holidays have surely slowed things down, but is there any update on this?

I checked TownHall, but that seems to not be used anymore unless, of course, we're still waiting for that new UBB software to be installed. ;)

We are finalizing our discussion in the TalkBoard forum.

Thanks!

One possible solution could be to allow this proposed forum, if approved, to be the only forum that can be moderated by all moderators.

This way, no one moderator will be overburdened and the forum can be moderated 24 hours per day, 7 days per week.

This is merely a suggestion.

Just a friendly bump as it has been about 10 weeks since this first was reported as being under talkboard discussion, and sweet willie has started a thread in ORP that reminds me of the need for such a forum.

Thanks for any feedback you might have.

I only go to threads that show current, interesting, posts on the main page. I have noticed that since the new forum has been introduced, that I rarely even go to my specific airline or hotel forums--I may be missing a few things, but I already know everything important that I need to know about my programs, have way too many miles and points, know how to get lots more, and find that it is just too big a pain for me to dig down to find and read my specific program forums.

While I sincerely hope that the new format is working for the vast majority, it does not work for me. Now, I only regularly vist Women's Forum, Community and OMNI.

How is it working for the rest of you?

I have my favorite forums subscribed to on "My Flyer Talk" and immediately head to that page. This saves me digging down. I also look at "New Posts" (or did until it was removed -- hopefully it will return soon).

When "My FlyerTalk" came out, I did that too, Dov, but now I only go there when I get a new message. I know sliding down the front page looking at new posts on thread that interest me, is just a habit which I could probably easily could and should change.

.....

There has been a bit more discussion on this matter, however it did not get a motion for a vote, nor a second and has therefore been tabled.

I'm disappointed to hear this. When you refer to "this matter," is that with respect to establishing an "Ask FlyerTalk" forum or the larger matter of where threads should be posted when they overlap forums, which is the subject of a similar thread? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=379205

I encourage the TalkBoard to make a recommendation, even if on an interim basis and if left it open to moderators as to whether or not to move threads. It could be as simple as deciding which component of a discussion has priority (geography, provider, or type of travel) when deciding on the appropriate. Thus, if a person has a question about train travel from NY to Boston, should it go to the NY or NE forum, the Amtrak forum, or TravelBuzz? With the search function down (and all of us sending good vibes for a rapid recovery) and Google search not being a perfect alternative, the more guidance there is about where to post, the easier it will be for a person, especially a newbie, who skims the most appropriate forum to find helpful information.

Thanks for the time to spent on FT matters.

Moderators already have the authority to move a thread if they feel it would be better served by being in a different forum.

In fact, I have sometimes seen threads which began, correctly, in one forum and when the tone of the thread changed it was moved to another. (I seem to recall a Delta Forum thread, for example, which became more concerned with security checks than Delta operations and was moved to the Travel Safety/Security Forum.)

Great idea, robb! ^ Does being tabled mean it's a no-go?

It means that the TalkBoard will not be making a recommendation to Randy on it one way or the other.

Bump in response to similar discussion in http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...52#post6346852.

One of the best ideas I've seen in a long time and definite 'add value' forum option.

I like it for several reasons;

- it encourages people to ask questions they might not feel there's an appropriate forum for;

- it ensures that relevant but ambiguous threads find the right home sooner rather than later;

- new threads will see an initial hit of responses from a wider audience before being properly 'filed' (as Robb said in his OP).

- (edited to add) it would also make a great sounding out platform for new travel relevant threads... travelling with pets for instance.

On the downside it would need dedicated moderation.

5 :-:

Would this forum be open to all users or would you consider it only for new(er) members?

I'd like to prevent seeing every member on FT finding out that the "ask Flyertalk" forum us the easiest place to post.

I'd certainly post my support for this forum, perhaps as a trial if it is opened to all members that have been on FT for shorter than say 180 days. Also, once their thread is moved I'd suggest they get a PM telling them where it was moved, why and with a welcome to Flyertalk.

I may be missing something here, but if we were to limit this new forum to new members only, we completely miss the issue that has caused the bumping of this thread. The issue now at hand is not just new members not knowing where to post, but veteran members who know exactly where something "should" go, but because of a lack of traffic post somewhere else. IOW, they want a larger audience to see the question/post.

I think the new issue at hand really centers around the question "Is it acceptable to purposefully post in the wrong forum when one is hoping to have more eyes see that post?" And if the answer to that is yes, should we allow members to just post where they want, or should a special forum be created to facilitate those posts (and maybe facilitate posts from new members as well.)

I dont like this idea. I think it is a cop-out for not having forums that are appropriate and/or forums that create a community that is available and able to answer appropriate questions.

Just because creating and eliminating the right forums in order to grow communities that are available to answer questions is difficult does not mean that it should not be done. IMHO, the REASON FT works is the communities it sustains: the UA community, the Starwood community, the womens community, the technology community, yeah, even the OMNI community. Etc. Etc.

Asking and answering questions is a fundamental component of the FT community experience, not a function that should be segregated away from the communities.

I see this issue as a desire to return to the days of FT when ALL that was discussed were strict frequency questions. There still is a place for that, but the community that has naturally evolved well beyond that is what keeps folks coming back long after they are frequency Jedis and makes them available to answer fundamental questions.

The current issue is that people dont post to the right forum because there is no traffic there. That is a problem for the TB to solve in a way that does not disrupt the forums that DO have communities that work, IMHO.

There is no "Flyertalk" per se. So saying "Ask FlyerTalk" is nonsensical. There is a community of people. More specifically, a community of communities. A community full of information, opinions, wit and thoughtfulness. Without that, you have nothing more than an echo chamber.

Makes a great deal of sense to me.

Hope you're planning on running for TB this year.

...so, in other words, if the idea of an “Ask FlyerTalk” area is approved, this would be the result?I definitely prefer the community aspect of FlyerTalk anyday.

I need to practice with a gimp ball first...see if I have the requisite taste for masochism ;)

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to lose the community aspect of FlyerTalk, but I can't see limiting this to new members.

Remember that it's not that the poster is lazy in refusing to post in the correct forum, it's that the rest of us are too lazy to read the "correct" forums. So, it's not something designed to help new members get acquainted with the board, it's designed to help traffic flow.

I picture it as questions only. Comments, observations, stories/trip reports would be expected to be posted directly in the appropriate permanent forum.

It's just a convenience for those of us who have the information to answer questions to check them in one place. I think it will greatly increase the speed with which more obscure questions are answered and add a lot more viewpoints to that answer.

The problem is that there isn't much community around the lightly traveled forums anyway. This way we pull in the entire FlyerTalk Community.

I should also make clear that posts should NEVER be moved into this forum from other forums except by poster request. Most UA questions/comments would still go to UA, most AA questions and comments would still go to AA. I see no reason to think that the community in large forums would be at all disrupted.

I also picture a system by which posts are bumped as they are moved. This way forum regulars who might have missed the topic in Ask FlyerTalk would still see it and discuss it within 3 days. No one who skipped reading this forum would miss out on anything. It would be totally optional. The questions would come over to their home forums within 72 short hours and everyone would have more of a chance to participate.

I don't see any reason, though, why we couldn't cretae the forum for 60 or 90 days as a trial and see what happens. We could make it clear that the forum is going away after that time and would have to be revoted upon to be reopened to lessen the unpleasant task of taking something away.

I agree with the idea of a trial period.

One usually never knows unless one tries...

FWIW, from what I have seen, the current TB has fairly high standards with regard to the creation of new forums and while no clear discernible standards have been identified my own analysis seems to indicate that the argument of 'Try it to see what happens' is a loser argument.

To the contrary, the standard seems to be something like: It needs to be directly related to travel, make sense to the TB members at a gut level, have overwhelming support from posters and fit neatly into the current structure of FT.

But as I say there are no clear standards so you never really know until you ask!

My argument would be that if there are some under-utilized forums (like Budget Rent a Car, for example) then lump all rental car programs into one forum to increase the likelihood of a question being seen and responded to in the proper forum. Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater by applying a FT-wide solution to a problem that only exists in a certain (few) forums.

And see, I think that idea both destroys community and makes future searches harder.

With all car rental agencies together, it's harder to keep a community of Budget devotees together. With Ask FlyerTalk, the Budget regulars would still always read Budget and enjoy zeroing in on just the things that matter to them with their limited time to access FlyerTalk.

If I try to search in the future for something like "additional driver fee" it's certainly much easier for me to search Budget only and find my answer more quickly than if I had to wade through all the car rental agencies.

As for a trial period, one big difference is that this is a totally different tool we're talking about adding. It's not the same as just creating a new forum. It's creating a new way for people to use FlyerTalk.

I certainly understand and empathize with your point. But again, why tamper with the forums that WORK in order to address the ones that dont?

The fact of the matter is that some programs will NEVER develop a community around them. Better to put the orphans in with loving families than force all children to a kibbutz whether they already have a loving home or not, IMHO.

Can you give an example of how a forum that WORKS would be "tampered with?"

Questions asked in the United forum are typically answered within seconds of being posted, even complicated ones or ones based on speculation. Those answers often lead to further discussion and examination of the issue and speculation as well as facts about changes to how that question might be answered in the future.

Here is a nice example: http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=599665

Under the new 'Ask flyertalk' setup there are 2 possibilities:

Possibility 1) The question will be asked in the AFT forum and then that question would be answered LESS quickly and some UA users (but only those who visit AFT regularly) would end up splitting their time between Ask Flyertalk and United for 3 days to participate in that AFT thread...by which time the conversation will typically have petered out anyway (my referenced thread being a bit of an exception). At the same time, you would be denying those UA forum users who DONT go to AFT the benefit of the question and answer for three days. For many here, that might mean missing out on a tidbit for their next flight!

Possibility 2) The question will be asked in the UA forum anyway. If that happens across the board, the only questions that will be asked in the AFT forum will be questions about programs that have no communities. And if that is the case then your traffic in AFT is going to be too low to be useful in any case. It'll just be the island of lost toys. And if that is going to be the case, why not just throw the orphan car programs in with the other car programs, etc.

Again, I truly appreciate the idea, I just think it has too much risk for unintended concequences.