Originally, after much discussion, we had three moderators appointed from among many applicants who were ultimately selected by Randy, with the expectation that their ranks would rapidly swell as other boards ushered moderators in. At least that was my understanding.

Cigarman ran, and was subsequently elected to the TB on a kinda' "platform" which included no moderators and he'd vigorously campaigned that he'd work to "...advocate the elimination..." of 'em.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/001374.html


Cigarman also then ran for TB President and was again successful here, as well, after again having commented steadfastly that he did "...not believe in moderators..."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000017.html

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Now

"I noted that among the most important first duties as President of TalkBoard, cigarman promptly assigned Vice President Mike (chexfan) the roll of research and implementation of new 'Moderators' on FlyerTalk. This immediate action by the Board is expected to bring about a more even application of posting procedures and policing of member TOS violations."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000038.html

So... Is the elimination of moderators now "off the table", so to speak?

What is their future role and is it assured?

FWIW, as you probably well know, I actually favor them, since I feel that we have not all been able to effectively moderate ourselves!


And in an only very faintly connected issue, you also ran favoring the concept that satellite forums (FT Travel etc) break apart the community, rather than enhance it. And you said that you would encourage them to be added to the main (FT Miles) board.

Is this "issue" also now, in contrast to the early statements made, a "dead" one?

Just asking since Moderators will clearly be compelled to play a critical role, it would seem, in keeping things "orderly" on the various boards! Thanks!

BTW, if the "Quiet Period" is finally over, then it would be truly great to hear from ya' all!

If not, I'll try to continue being patient!

Thanks again!

Should the TalkBoard members aggressively push their viewpoints, or should they solicit input from the community? Or maybe a mix of both?

My own interpretation (which may be completely bogus) was that Randy wanted to hear personal viewpoints of those he nominated, and the community viewpoint from the elected members.

[This message has been edited by PG (edited 03-06-2002).]

Perhaps we should be "lobbying" our elected and appointed officials to bring matters of personal interest and importance before the TB, just as we might write our Congresspeople here in the US!

Great post Doc. I'm glad someone actually read and wants to discuss SUBSTANCE. Yes, it is true I personally do not favor moderators. However, as you know, MANY times Randy has said they are coming. Since it's Randy's board, I have two choices. Play ball or complain and get in the way. I choose to play ball and do as Randy asks. Just as with segmented forums. I say my piece, when its clear I won't win, I do my best to achieve the will of the majority. Thanks for asking.

It may be a surprise to you that a lot more of us want to discuss SUBSTANCE. So fire away at things that you consider are substantive, and we'd be happy to give our opinion on where we'd like our elected reps to lead us.

I'm hoping the Talk Board will do its best to act on this issue. A strongly moderated board is a necessity as FlyerTalk continues to grow. Nothing is more off-putting than a growing legion of "trolls" feeding fires about non-issues unrelated to miles & points. Our new resident "troll" on the Continental board posts at a steady clip of over 200/month.

Will related measures be put in place to help guard against multiple posting identities?

Aha, another issue of SUBSTANCE. That is a really good question for cigarman to answer.

Or even a good question to me. I'm surprised to hear of this troll in the CO forum. I have yet to hear any complaint against them by email. I'd say that the substanance of all this is better communication. For instance, MatthewClements contacted me about two weeks ago about a multi-handle suspect. Within the day, i closed off their accounts from psoting, issued a desist warning to the person and have yet to turn any of their posting privileges back on since they have elected not to respsond to my email request for an explanation. That action would never had taken place if any member had not provided me with a complaint. And they work better when it's not a public complaint. Two weeks before that another member and three associated IP addresses were closed for similar infractions, again because a member privately emailed me some suspicions. I don't want this to be Big Brother, but communicating our "Neighborhood Watch" program is something that works. But again, without the support of the members, we simply can not be everywhere all the time.

And as long as we're on the subject of Trolls and substance, will the issue of cross-posting be as firmly dealt with as the others?

It is clearly against the listed Terms of Service to post the exact same content in multiple threads or multiple forums. Flyertalk's TOS even refers to that as "spamming" and says "we won't allow that".

If information about these infractions are privately e-mailed, will action to stop and remove them be taken?

That is another interesting question, and there has been some related debate about it.

First of all, sometimes a post may rightly belong in multiple forums. For example, if Radissson has a promotion for 10,000 United miles for 3 stays, should that be posted under Radisson or under United or under both? My own inclination (given the wording in the "Guidelines & Rules") would be to post under one of the two forums, and then provide a link to this thread in the other forum. I do not believe that this violates the guidelines and rules. Subsequently this may be discussed in both forums and there may be some duplication among the discusion.

Another interpretation that seems to hold some support among some members is that any "juicy" promotion should also be mentioned under MilesBuzz. Infact many of the multi-page threads under MilesBuzz are also discussed elsewhere. Is this a violation of the Guidelines and Rules? While Randy is the ultimate authority on the answer to this question, I'd be inclined to say that this does not violate the guidelines and rules. But, if I were to post under MilesBuzz in this situation I would post a link in MilesBuzz to the main discussion in the other forum.

As an example the NW 10K promotion was widely discussed under the NW forum last year. Later on, someone posted this under MilesBuzz also, and a lot of FTers felt that it was very useful to be posted under MilesBuzz.

I feel that this is one area which could be further clarified in the "Guideline & Rules" section.

I agree that a hotel/airline promotion or event should be listed in the hotel/airline forum, and then perhaps a link like:

in either Buzz or Community (where applicable) is appropriate.

That is not the spamming that I am referring to.

I am specifically referencing when huge, half or full screen posts are cut and pasted in multiple threads and multiple forums. Or, when links like the one I sampled above are listed in 4,5 6 or more threads in a single forum. Or, when someone uses the "reply with quote" feature to essentially and exactly copy and repost a second time a very large post, to simply add a few words (like the old AOL "me-too" syndrome).

These are spamming and crossposting in the classic sense, and my question about it remains:

If information about these infractions is privately e-mailed, will action to stop and remove them be taken, and will repeated infractions be addressed with those doing it?



[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 03-07-2002).]

I can think of at least two very prominent FTers who have done this. Any guess on who they are?

I am not singling out anyone in particular, nor am I interested in accepting any flame bait today, thank you. Clearly, the "relevance" of any past transgressions on Flyertalk is moot, as there is enough mud to sling to go around for everyone.

This is a legitimate question, on topic in a legitimate forum that deserves an answer.

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 03-07-2002).]

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Prominent? Flyertalker? Two?

I know only one "prominent" FT'er, and that would of course be Randy, and he surely seems to be "innocent" enough to me!

FWIW, IMHO, "Moderators" should be moderate in their approach and actions(s) and substantively focus on the reason they were instituted in the first place - to protect FT'ers from "flaming" personal attacks that threaten the very existance of FT itself.

By analogy, should a police officer delay answering a homicide or rape call in order to properly issue summons' to half a dozen folks who neglected to wear their seat belts?

I don't think so - and I do wear mine, BTW!

As has been stated so very often, by so VERY many in the past, simply SKIP posts that you do not like!

it is inappropriate to be asked to "skip the posts I do not like", when they are clearly violations of Flyertalk's charter.

It is even more inappropriate to be asked to just skip someone else's TOS violations when being asked not to violate them myself.

It is still more inappropriate to infer ones own violations are minor, but others' are major.

So again, I ask the question, with full confidence that Randy will provide an answer:

It is clearly against the listed Terms of Service to post the exact same content in multiple threads or multiple forums. Flyertalk's TOS even refers to that as "spamming" and says "we won't allow that".

If information about these infractions are privately e-mailed, will action to stop and remove them be taken?