While I think c-mans post may be over the top, it does bring up a very valid point.

The election has become a joke. This bodes very poorly for the TalkBoard overall.

Elections closed a long time ago. There is on reason that the results should not have been posted 30 minutes after that.

I know with the events of last month, people are very busy. And that's completely understandable. However, the balloting system should have been providing up-to-the-minute counts for the powers-that-be. All it would have taken was a 10 line e-mail from said powers saying who won.

The fact that this hasn't happened makes me wonder if something more sinister isn't going on.

Simply because of the lack of transparency into the process, and massive delays of posting the results, I'm tempted to call for a revote using a transparent open voting system. Also a revote that would help account for the non-NorthAmerican bias so well documented by MB.

However, I"m not going to do that. What I am going to do is to formally ask the powers-that-be to let us know, very quickly, what's going on. Note that I'm not asking for the results of the election. I'm asking for a detailed account of why the results haven't been published yet. Simply knowing the results at this time would no longer be sufficient -- at least not to me.

All jokes about Florida aside, the continued silence after close of business Monday is disturbing, to say the least.



TW

In this thread Randy spoke of the delay for those who didn't get a chance to see it (although he states in it that results would be out by yesterday).

Dorian




[This message has been edited by Dorian (edited 10-09-2001).]

As much as i enjoy my ministry under cigarman's reign, more openness in the election process would be a very good thing.

I agree. The longer this is delayed, the less confidence I have that the results are not tainted.

I believe that a reasonable explanation should be provided.

I also believe that a group of FTers who were not involved in the TalkBoard process - either as candidates or appointees or vote counters - should be allowed to audit the results so that confidence in the fairness of this process can be restored.

Watch the black helicopters. Darned things are everywhere .

Having said that, if I'm missing the obvious humor here, please forgive me. Late night and a long day here in PIT.

I seem to recall (and cannot seem to find the thread) that one of the things that has to happen is verification based on FT membership (presumably before the election began). I'm sure that with the business to run, the recent migrations, and probably a whole slew of new awardguard business (among other things), FT might have to take a backseat to rest of Randy's business operation.

Not to sweat--I'm sure that everything will be on the up and up. If that's not the case, Cigarman's attempted coup might just work. That, or we send the black helicopters and guys in windbreakers to every datacenter in Colorado with console cables, Sun boot CDs, and a will to use both .

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Saving the world, one clue at a time.

[This message has been edited by ClueByFour (edited 10-09-2001).]

WOW! As Rodney Dangerfield used to say (and maybe still does), "Rough crowd, rough crowd!"

I too wonder what's happening, but shouldn't we all be havin' the trial first, before we do the hangin'?

As I noted elsewhere, it is admittedly somewhat dissapointing, as well as surprising, and the silence thusfar is disheartening, but I, for one, am willing to give the benefit of the doubt until I have very good reason not too.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/002832.html

Isn't it just possible that the delay is to positively insure that everything is in fact "on the up and up?"

-Patiently,

Mark

Doc,

Get real. I'm not asking for a lynching. Nor even a trial.

I'm asking for facts to be put into evidence.

If things were being held up so that they could be verified as being correct, that would have been fine. *IF* a post had been made saying so. That would have taken the powers-that-be all of 30 seconds to do, maybe less.

Given that I have faith that the powers-that-be are not nincompoops, ninnies, or complete dolts, I have to assume that if that is what was going on, they would have taken the step of posting a message saying, "We're doing such-and-such, results will be out on such-and-such. We apologize for the delay."

No such post was made. So, rather than switch my assumption about the quality of management, I'm telling myself that there are bigger issues going on. I'd like to know what those issues are, and what's being done about them.

In the end, FT is Randy's. I'm 100% aware of that. It's not just the case that it's his ball and he can call the game off and go home. It's his ball, his playground, his game, and even his realm of existance. They are all his. He's done a wonderful thing here, and we all owe him a lot for it.

However, the whole notion of a TalkBoard implies that he feels that there should be community involvement. The level of involvement has never (that I've seen) been clearly defined, but I have to assume that it will be in some advisory capacity. His desire for such input seems to me indicative of a desire on his part to involve members of the community in the evolution of FT. To want to involve the community somehow, and yet to keep the election proceedings so opaque is not consistant.

As such, I'm asking for information.

As I side note, I find your comments about "do the hangin'" to be rude, distasteful, and inflamatory in the extreem. Those were exactly the types of inane, useless ideas that I was trying to get away from when I started this thread. I'm also at a loss as to why you posted a link to your OMNI thread congratulating the election winners, unless your point was to highlight the expectation of results as ironic. I think your congratulations to the winners are completely irrelevant to this thread -- which is about process, not the results.

If anything, this whole process is beginning to mirror what should be a common experience to most of us. Afterall, how often has it been that we've been sitting at the gate awaiting the arrival of our flight -- the delay of which was never posted on the departures screen in the club lounge -- which never does seem to arrive. Nobody at the counter can tell us when the plane will arrive, why it has been delayed, or when it might be expected to depart. They just advise not going back to the club lounge because they will be boarding quickly and you might miss it. In short, isn't the lack of information about the results of this election exactly what we have come to expect in the air travel game? Why should FlyerTalk be any different?

In fairness to Randy, and given my background in survey research, there are times when such polling processes can take on a life of their own. With so many variables to tabulate, the process becomes unweildy and almost defeating. I suspect this may have been what happened here. The database program used may not have been quite able to handle the range of variables thrown at it, and by employing people not skilled in the art of survey compillation, led to further major delays. Believe me, even we professionals have faced such beasts.

I will not doubt the integrity of the results when they come out, but would have expected a bit more explanation of the reason for the ongoing delay by now.

---

Well, I'm surely not laughing!

---

--

Couldn't the same be said for some of the remarks above?

In any case, please accept my apologies for any offense you deemed that I've cast upon you. Please be assured it was not my intention.

FWIW, I referred to the other thread above simply because it reflected my own personal view that had already been posted therein, similar to yours in many respects, albeit worded considerably differently!


Again:

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A bit of patience goes a long way, no?

Have a great day all!

Ahhh, what's the hurry anyway? It's just an Advisory Board that advises. Randy and staff are still capable of keeping things running and making the decisions as always, IMHO.

I'm waiting for the election of an Advisory Board that advises the Advisory Board!

Let's just have the reuslts. We have waited long enough. It' simple, count the ballots and report the results.

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UA1K,Plt. AA, M/M DL,
Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Plt, Starwood Plt.

I don't know what the prior post count was on the TalkBoard Forum, but there's over 400 posts in that forum now, and it seems active.

I hope that the Board hasn't been elected and already debating policy anonymously. Anonymity didn't work well with the moderators, and it wouldn't work well here.

Of course, I also hope that there isn't truly a reason to suspect someone's fraudulently padding the vote count by adding new members.

As always, though, our imagainations can run away with us in the absence of updates, so anything that can be told us would be appreciated.

Thanks

Anyone remember that episode of the Simpsons where Sideshow Bob runs for mayor? There's a great line from it that goes something like: "Here's the list of voters and who they all voted for."

Can we have that list?

FewMiles..

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FlyerTalkers' Resources on the Web: http://fewmiles.tripod.com/
Unofficial Guide to AAdvantage: http://fewmiles.tripod.com/AA/
Unofficial oneworld Info Desk: http://fewmiles.tripod.com/oneworld/

ROBB,

I sincerely doubt the board would work in secret. That TalkBoard has been active ever since Moderators were announced... I am still waiting to see Moderator 10 on another board!

I was one of the people up for election... and I am comfortable that Randy is doing what is necessary as soon as he can.

As Doc says, be patient...

William