Should FlyerTalk move from an elected advisory board to an appointed advisory board?
Jun 14, 2016, 10:03 am
#16
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Wow. To think I thought there was drama in the 2 years I served on the TalkBoard. Compared to the current TB, there was very little.
I think this recommendation is interesting, but unnecessary.
This is nothing that can't be solved by taking a few deep breaths (across a few people), walking away from the keyboard and getting fresh air (likely the same people), and remembering that in the end IJAFIBB.
(Oh, I'd also suggest voting out those who can't or won't avoid the drama.)
I think this recommendation is interesting, but unnecessary.
This is nothing that can't be solved by taking a few deep breaths (across a few people), walking away from the keyboard and getting fresh air (likely the same people), and remembering that in the end IJAFIBB.
(Oh, I'd also suggest voting out those who can't or won't avoid the drama.)
Jun 14, 2016, 11:29 am
#17
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
I agree that it is time for a reappraisal.
As someone who is interested in developments around FT I am honestly disappointed by the level of bickering amongst TB members and would be supportive of any steps taken by the Community Director to address it. Looking back I suppose this was inevitable since even at the last election the Q/thread about reducing bickering was full of....bickering.
In any case the notion of democracy is relative with only 468 members voting last time around. And to be honest if I'd known how it would turn out I wouldn't have bothered either.
I would therefore be supportive of a largely appointed board, perhaps with 2 or 3 elected members (or co-opted members with a particular skills set). If taken forward I would hope that current TB positions would be placed at the disposal of the Community Director to fill in an alternative manner.
Whilst on the case I would also be in favour of discussions etc being fully in public. If the real purpose is to represent members I can't see what there is to hide (apart presumably from more rancour and infighting) from openness and transparency. That really is the way the real world is going.
As someone who is interested in developments around FT I am honestly disappointed by the level of bickering amongst TB members and would be supportive of any steps taken by the Community Director to address it. Looking back I suppose this was inevitable since even at the last election the Q/thread about reducing bickering was full of....bickering.
In any case the notion of democracy is relative with only 468 members voting last time around. And to be honest if I'd known how it would turn out I wouldn't have bothered either.
I would therefore be supportive of a largely appointed board, perhaps with 2 or 3 elected members (or co-opted members with a particular skills set). If taken forward I would hope that current TB positions would be placed at the disposal of the Community Director to fill in an alternative manner.
Whilst on the case I would also be in favour of discussions etc being fully in public. If the real purpose is to represent members I can't see what there is to hide (apart presumably from more rancour and infighting) from openness and transparency. That really is the way the real world is going.
Last edited by simons1; Jun 14, 2016 at 1:42 pm Reason: Change 'President' to 'Community Director'
Jun 14, 2016, 11:34 am
#18
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I agree that it is time for a reappraisal.
As someone who is interested in developments around FT I am honestly disappointed by the level of bickering amongst TB members and would be supportive of any steps taken by the President to address it. Looking back I suppose this was inevitable since even at the last election the Q/thread about reducing bickering was full of....bickering.
In any case the notion of democracy is relative with only 468 members voting last time around. And to be honest if I'd known how it would turn out I wouldn't have bothered either.
I would therefore be supportive of a largely appointed board, perhaps with 2 or 3 elected members (or co-opted members with a particular skills set). If taken forward I would hope that current TB positions would be placed at the disposal of the President to fill in an alternative manner.
Whilst on the case I would also be in favour of discussions etc being fully in public. If the real purpose is to represent members I can't see what there is to hide (apart presumably from more rancour and infighting) from openness and transparency. That really is the way the real world is going.
As someone who is interested in developments around FT I am honestly disappointed by the level of bickering amongst TB members and would be supportive of any steps taken by the President to address it. Looking back I suppose this was inevitable since even at the last election the Q/thread about reducing bickering was full of....bickering.
In any case the notion of democracy is relative with only 468 members voting last time around. And to be honest if I'd known how it would turn out I wouldn't have bothered either.
I would therefore be supportive of a largely appointed board, perhaps with 2 or 3 elected members (or co-opted members with a particular skills set). If taken forward I would hope that current TB positions would be placed at the disposal of the President to fill in an alternative manner.
Whilst on the case I would also be in favour of discussions etc being fully in public. If the real purpose is to represent members I can't see what there is to hide (apart presumably from more rancour and infighting) from openness and transparency. That really is the way the real world is going.
Jun 14, 2016, 11:38 am
#19
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Whilst on the case I would also be in favour of discussions etc being fully in public. If the real purpose is to represent members I can't see what there is to hide (apart presumably from more rancour and infighting) from openness and transparency. That really is the way the real world is going.
Jun 14, 2016, 11:44 am
#20
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As a practical matter you can't make all private discussions public by closing the private forum. Private discussions will simply move to PM or phone calls. At some point you need to trust TB members to post their thoughts accurately in the public forum.
Jun 14, 2016, 11:47 am
#21
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The CommunityDirector has said previously that the private TB forum will remain private. I'd be surprised if that has changed.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Jun 14, 2016, 11:52 am
#22
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Whether elected, appointed or a hybrid I have total faith in the CommunityDirector that she'll choose a course of action that she believes will best benefit FT as a whole. Ultimately it is her decision, whether it be elections, appointed, hybrid, terms of serving, how they're chosen, make up of TB, whether it be non-mods, mods, domestic, int'l, etc. She's done an excellent job as CD to date; I don't expect that to change. Cheers.
Jun 14, 2016, 1:48 pm
#23
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Whether elected, appointed or a hybrid I have total faith in the CommunityDirector that she'll choose a course of action that she believes will best benefit FT as a whole. Ultimately it is her decision, whether it be elections, appointed, hybrid, terms of serving, how they're chosen, make up of TB, whether it be non-mods, mods, domestic, int'l, etc. She's done an excellent job as CD to date; I don't expect that to change.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Jun 14, 2016, 4:28 pm
#24
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) & 'alleged reasons' for it being private (not you) & moderators, neither of which were the topic of the thread. BTW - to be blunt, there are no 'black helicopters', which I feel some FTers think when they think of the private forum or mods. That gets old.Re: the private forum being open to all. The CD has said it will remain private. If someone has a problem w/ that they can take it up w/ her via PM. @:-)
Re: appointed vs. elected. I would say either/or. When I first ran for TB 1,852 votes were cast. When I ran last year 468 votes were cast. That's in 5 years.
One could say well folk are not happy w/ TB so they don't vote. I'd say - and I've said this in the past re: elections - FT has grown by magnitude in terms of registered users but most could give two patooties about the admin/backbone of the IBB.
They come to FT for info on their programs & how best to utilize them & don't pay any attention to the rest unless something is done that truly negatively impacts their usage.
Also, most of the "hot button" items have been sorted out during the last 17 years. Heck, when I first came on TB in 2010 we had more motions (not for the sake of motions alone, but some really hot buttons) but FT is more mature. It's 17 years old at this point. Geesh, even TripAdvisor etc have changed (and FWIW - when I'm on other IBBs I rarely, if ever, pay attention to the backbone/admin of them; truly).
So as I mentioned above, because of the declining #s in elections in spite of the CDs best efforts (and she works hard to publicize it), plus the public bickering (including one who is supporting you on part of your post but ignoring your other thoughts in the same post
), my recommendation would be more at this point to go to appointed.I'd also say make it either all elected or all appointed & not a hybrid. If the #s voting when there are multiple candidates at this point are so low, why on earth would anyone would think that they'd improve when there are only two candidates? And Gawd forbid, if the two elected were also PITA/disruptive, even if the rest are appointed (and no I'm not talking just disagreement on a topic; there's a difference between disagreement & sniping/bickering), how does that help FT?
At this point I'd encourage the CD to go to appointed (again, partly because there are less items that are cropping up) & leave it up to her to figure out a good method for choosing who would be appointed & the rotating on/off.
Cheers.
Jun 14, 2016, 4:53 pm
#25
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I would hope that, if any change is made, that it be on a "trial" basis.
There sometimes seems to be a rush to put changes into stone, in perpetuity. Why? Flexibility is generally a good thing.
There sometimes seems to be a rush to put changes into stone, in perpetuity. Why? Flexibility is generally a good thing.
Jun 14, 2016, 4:57 pm
#26
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I would argue that the relevance of TalkBoard has become more and more of a casualty of the maturation of FlyerTalk in general — irrespective of the bickering or other problems which plague the user advisory board.
Looking at the dates in which members of the current TalkBoard have joined FlyerTalk...
...one can see that the members of FlyerTalk who believe that TalkBoard is worthy of performing a service to other members of FlyerTalk joined when Randy Petersen was still the owner and community director of FlyerTalk — when FlyerTalk was still considered a community of frequent fliers. The newest member of FlyerTalk who is a current member of TalkBoard has already been a member for six years.
Now that there are 646,012 members of FlyerTalk — let us say 500,000 to wipe out duplicate accounts, dead accounts and other anomalies — I would be surprised if one percent of that number cared about TalkBoard or the processes which entail and ensure that FlyerTalk works as members want for it to work. The number is probably more likely fewer than half of one percent, as what the majority of FlyerTalk members hope to do is access the information they need and leave.
Another issue is that communities have shifted to social media platforms — such as Facebook, Twitter and Pinterest — most of which did not exist when FlyerTalk launched its second iteration in May of 1998. Combine that with the explosion of weblogs whose topics deal with miles, points and travel, FlyerTalk quite possibly faces a future similar to those of newspapers, radio and television — and there is no user advisory board similar to TalkBoard on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest and the weblogs.
At one time, no one would even dare think of FlyerTalk without Randy Petersen. Similarly, Carol — SanDiego1K — will not be community director of FlyerTalk forever either. We must think about the future of FlyerTalk, as it will change again as time goes on.
Perhaps it is time for those of us who have been members of FlyerTalk for many years to face the fact that times have changed; and that we are relics of what was once a tight-knit and personal community — which still exists within the greater membership of FlyerTalk, if you know where to look for it...
Looking at the dates in which members of the current TalkBoard have joined FlyerTalk...
- One member: 1999
- Four members: 2002
- One member: 2004
- One member: 2005
- One member: 2009
- One member: 2010
...one can see that the members of FlyerTalk who believe that TalkBoard is worthy of performing a service to other members of FlyerTalk joined when Randy Petersen was still the owner and community director of FlyerTalk — when FlyerTalk was still considered a community of frequent fliers. The newest member of FlyerTalk who is a current member of TalkBoard has already been a member for six years.
Now that there are 646,012 members of FlyerTalk — let us say 500,000 to wipe out duplicate accounts, dead accounts and other anomalies — I would be surprised if one percent of that number cared about TalkBoard or the processes which entail and ensure that FlyerTalk works as members want for it to work. The number is probably more likely fewer than half of one percent, as what the majority of FlyerTalk members hope to do is access the information they need and leave.
Another issue is that communities have shifted to social media platforms — such as Facebook, Twitter and Pinterest — most of which did not exist when FlyerTalk launched its second iteration in May of 1998. Combine that with the explosion of weblogs whose topics deal with miles, points and travel, FlyerTalk quite possibly faces a future similar to those of newspapers, radio and television — and there is no user advisory board similar to TalkBoard on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest and the weblogs.
At one time, no one would even dare think of FlyerTalk without Randy Petersen. Similarly, Carol — SanDiego1K — will not be community director of FlyerTalk forever either. We must think about the future of FlyerTalk, as it will change again as time goes on.
Perhaps it is time for those of us who have been members of FlyerTalk for many years to face the fact that times have changed; and that we are relics of what was once a tight-knit and personal community — which still exists within the greater membership of FlyerTalk, if you know where to look for it...
Jun 14, 2016, 4:58 pm
#27
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Well I would say the use of a private forum by TB is at least a relevant element to a discussion about the TB. Whereas whether we have confidence in the CD is to me a completely different subject and not under debate.
Indeed I could send a PM about the private forum, we all know that, however I don't see that means it can't be discussed. I could also send a PM complaining about the derailing of public threads through endless bickering and arguing but it doesn't mean it can't be discussed here.
Quite sad to read that voting has fallen by 75% in 5 years though. There will always be a decent chunk of people who are not interested, but there will also be others who just don't see the value. In that sense I suppose it's like political elections, people say nice things in their election addresses which get forgotten pretty quickly.
Indeed I could send a PM about the private forum, we all know that, however I don't see that means it can't be discussed. I could also send a PM complaining about the derailing of public threads through endless bickering and arguing but it doesn't mean it can't be discussed here.
Quite sad to read that voting has fallen by 75% in 5 years though. There will always be a decent chunk of people who are not interested, but there will also be others who just don't see the value. In that sense I suppose it's like political elections, people say nice things in their election addresses which get forgotten pretty quickly.
Jun 14, 2016, 5:26 pm
#28
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Quite sad to read that voting has fallen by 75% in 5 years though. There will always be a decent chunk of people who are not interested, but there will also be others who just don't see the value. In that sense I suppose it's like political elections, people say nice things in their election addresses which get forgotten pretty quickly.
I would say that as FT has grown, most who come to FT don't care about the admin & therefore aren't interested in elections. They care about what is important to them, which is how to maximize their programs/points/benefits/spend.
Those folk won't pay attention to the public announcements or TM, won't read the candidates statements, won't read the candidates answers to questions, and won't bother voting. That has nothing to do w/ a candidate saying 'nice things'. They'll never see the nice things.
BTW - if you're interested in election # of voters per year:
2015 - 468
2014 - 597
2013 - 738
2012 - 1068
2011 - 1375
2010 - 1852
2009 - 1616
2008 - 2180
2007 - 982
2006 - 2013
Cheers.
Last edited by SkiAdcock; Jun 14, 2016 at 6:12 pm Reason: add stats...
Jun 14, 2016, 5:34 pm
#29
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* TB has had a private forum since 2001 (aka, 15 years), both under Randy Petersen & the current Community Director. The CD has said within the last several months she intends the private TB forum to stay private. Given her statement & the long history of it being private, I don't see it suddenly changing to public read only. So while you could start a separate thread re: making the private forum public, I think ultimately your or anyone else's time would be better spent on making a case for appointed, elected or hybrid TB moving forward.
Cheers.
Last edited by SkiAdcock; Jun 14, 2016 at 6:03 pm
Jun 14, 2016, 7:17 pm
#30
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
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I would argue that the relevance of TalkBoard has become more and more of a casualty of the maturation of FlyerTalk in general — irrespective of the bickering or other problems which plague the user advisory board.
Looking at the dates in which members of the current TalkBoard have joined FlyerTalk...
...one can see that the members of FlyerTalk who believe that TalkBoard is worthy of performing a service to other members of FlyerTalk joined when Randy Petersen was still the owner and community director of FlyerTalk — when FlyerTalk was still considered a community of frequent fliers. The newest member of FlyerTalk who is a current member of TalkBoard has already been a member for six years.
Now that there are 646,012 members of FlyerTalk — let us say 500,000 to wipe out duplicate accounts, dead accounts and other anomalies — I would be surprised if one percent of that number cared about TalkBoard or the processes which entail and ensure that FlyerTalk works as members want for it to work. The number is probably more likely fewer than half of one percent, as what the majority of FlyerTalk members hope to do is access the information they need and leave.
Another issue is that communities have shifted to social media platforms — such as Facebook, Twitter and Pinterest — most of which did not exist when FlyerTalk launched its second iteration in May of 1998. Combine that with the explosion of weblogs whose topics deal with miles, points and travel, FlyerTalk quite possibly faces a future similar to those of newspapers, radio and television — and there is no user advisory board similar to TalkBoard on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest and the weblogs.
At one time, no one would even dare think of FlyerTalk without Randy Petersen. Similarly, Carol — SanDiego1K — will not be community director of FlyerTalk forever either. We must think about the future of FlyerTalk, as it will change again as time goes on.
Perhaps it is time for those of us who have been members of FlyerTalk for many years to face the fact that times have changed; and that we are relics of what was once a tight-knit and personal community — which still exists within the greater membership of FlyerTalk, if you know where to look for it...
Looking at the dates in which members of the current TalkBoard have joined FlyerTalk...
- One member: 1999
- Four members: 2002
- One member: 2004
- One member: 2005
- One member: 2009
- One member: 2010
...one can see that the members of FlyerTalk who believe that TalkBoard is worthy of performing a service to other members of FlyerTalk joined when Randy Petersen was still the owner and community director of FlyerTalk — when FlyerTalk was still considered a community of frequent fliers. The newest member of FlyerTalk who is a current member of TalkBoard has already been a member for six years.
Now that there are 646,012 members of FlyerTalk — let us say 500,000 to wipe out duplicate accounts, dead accounts and other anomalies — I would be surprised if one percent of that number cared about TalkBoard or the processes which entail and ensure that FlyerTalk works as members want for it to work. The number is probably more likely fewer than half of one percent, as what the majority of FlyerTalk members hope to do is access the information they need and leave.
Another issue is that communities have shifted to social media platforms — such as Facebook, Twitter and Pinterest — most of which did not exist when FlyerTalk launched its second iteration in May of 1998. Combine that with the explosion of weblogs whose topics deal with miles, points and travel, FlyerTalk quite possibly faces a future similar to those of newspapers, radio and television — and there is no user advisory board similar to TalkBoard on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest and the weblogs.
At one time, no one would even dare think of FlyerTalk without Randy Petersen. Similarly, Carol — SanDiego1K — will not be community director of FlyerTalk forever either. We must think about the future of FlyerTalk, as it will change again as time goes on.
Perhaps it is time for those of us who have been members of FlyerTalk for many years to face the fact that times have changed; and that we are relics of what was once a tight-knit and personal community — which still exists within the greater membership of FlyerTalk, if you know where to look for it...
It IS interesting to consider that FlyerTalk preceded facebook (as we know it) by 8 years. That might explain a lot. So many of the friends I made on FlyerTalk (including my wife) no longer post on FT...but I still am friends with them in real life and/or on social media.
Anyway.
I don't know if my proposal would improve how decisions are made or not. But it just seems to me that by removing 'politics' from the FT advisory group, it might operate more professionally.
If she does got this direction, I hope Carol would include a cross-representation of FlyerTalkers...power users, moderators, outside the box thinkers, new users and old timers.