How are Destination forums ordered?
 

Just wondering, but how are the Travel&Dining: Destination forums ordered? (I'm assuming this is Talkboard-decided). The sequence doesn't seem to be alphabetical, nor geographic.

For example, United States forums show in this order:
Hawaii
Alaska
California
Florida
New England
Mid-Atlantic
South
Midwest
Texas
West

IB or I do it. It certainly looks random. Let me play with it a bit, and then you check and see if it makes better sense. I think I'll start with the east coast and work west.

Either that or in alphabetical order would make sense.

Looking forward to seeing the results of Carol's change. It has seemed a bit mish-mashed to me in the past.

For some history, details, information and ideas pertaining to this topic, please refer to the following discussion:

Travel Destination Forums: can they please be reordered

Once I get used to Hawaii being at the bottom of the list instead of the top (I use the Forum Jump menu at the bottom of the pages), this works.

I have to say that it's taken me a bit of time to get used to the new order, but it makes sense. :)

I never could figure out why The Middle East forum is listed last in the World category. It is not last alphabetically (M) and geographically the region belongs in Asia.

I've often wondered as well about 'The World' subfora. France and Germany have their own forum but there is also Europe; shouldn't we be subfora of Europe? I think that people are sometimes confused and post on Europe as a sort of catchall as a result.

Makes sense to me. Maybe the Community Director can take a look at "The World" listings next.

Cheers.

I agree - and it's also true in Asia where many of the destinations should be subforums of Asia. But I haven't done it as there was a huge fuss by someone on TB some years back who hated having subforums. I don't even remember his reasons any more, but I am loathe to do it without member support. For me, yes, it makes good sense.

I fully support changing to a subforum layout, similar to the American ones. I always read the 'Europe' forum to mean 'other Europe' ie not Germany, France, Scandinavia, the UK and Ireland, etc, and 'Asia' as 'other Asia'.

Does it require a TB motion to approve and to make the change? (Recognising that it also requires quite a bit of work from you, sorry!) :)

New York City and Washington DC are subforums of the Mid-Atlantic forum, yet still show on the main Travel&Dining: Destination >> United States page. Why would subforums be that different from a regular forum? I'd say that if it makes sense, go for it.

First paragraph is the way I read it as well, and would support the sub-forum layout, as a regular TB member.

I can't speak for other TB members, but I think this is something the Community Director can do (realizing it's extra work for her & it should be fit in when she has time) since the sub-forums & main forums already exist - it's just doing a bit of re-arranging of them, and doesn't require a full TB motion/voting.

Cheers.

To me as well. I haven't brought it up for the same reasons you mention, but if you decide to go for it, you have my full support. ;)

I would certainly support your efforts at re-ordering the forums. Perhaps ordering them under parent geographic areas ordering them in an alphabetic order Continent-Country-City ? Or does this fubar the parent/child relationship of the software?

It used to be listed in Asia, but then some Americans didn't think it was in Asia, so it got moved out to a place people don't think to look. This decision rather perplexed the Europeans, but according to the world of FT, the ME is not in Asia. :confused:

Americans are notorious for being geographically challenged. :p

but then please include the european rail travel forum into this ... :)

And why is Turkey, applicant to the EU, and Azerbaijan, host of the EuroVision Song Contest 2012, in the Middle East according to FT'ers? :confused:

Thanks for all your thoughts. I set up 3 subforums today:

Asia

South America

Europe

I hope that this meets some of the concerns above. I also hope that it gently guides members to the proper regional forum. We get a lot of misposted threads, particularly in the Asia forum when the post would get better attention in Thailand or Japan (for example).

Feedback continues to be welcome.

^^ This is looking MUCH more organized and is how I have always envisioned it should be! :)

U.K and Ireland: Now a sub-forum under Europe?
 

I was annoyed to log in today and find that The U.K. and Ireland Travel & Dining forum is now buried as a sub-forum under Europe. This makes it more difficult to find, and takes longer to access as I have to click through an additional layer of forums.

If it's a general FT policy to do this, to keep the forum lists shorter, then I understand ... I can see there are pros and cons to both approaches.

However, why does the United States still gets to keep separate top-level forums for it's various regions? Is this an example of bias against Europe on Flyertalk?

To put this another way, we now have:

Travel&Dining: Destination >> United States

vs:

Travel&Dining: Destination >> The World > Europe

This means that the various sub-forums under Europe are buried in an additional layer of clicks. Why shouldn't Europe be at the same level as the United States?

See this existing thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...s-ordered.html

Particularly post#21 from yesterday:

It's not the order of the forums that bothers me, its the fact that the various forums under Europe are now buried so deeply that they are hard to find.

"Europe" should be at the same level as "United States", not under "The World".

Are you using MyFlyerTalk? You can "subscribe" to any forums you look at frequently (e.g. UK/Ireland) and it only takes one click to get there - if you aren't (yet), you might want to take a look. Here's more info - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/2708893-post3.html

Edit to add: I'm not sure how it takes one further click to get to UK/Ireland than it did before. When I click on "Travel&Dining: Destination >> The World", I get a full listing of all forums and sub-forums and can click to UK/Ireland from there. Is that not the case with yours?

Previously, the forums that are now hidden under "Europe" were directly accessible from the main "Travel & Dining" link. Now, you have to click through on "Europe" or "The World" before those forums are revealed.

The various "United States" sub-forums are still directly accessible, as are the forums which are directly under "The World".

I think "Europe" should be moved so that it has the same level of visibility as "United States".

That's the direct effect from the 3 subfora our Community Director created the day before. See my post#2.

Same thing happened to Asia Forum that I frequent. I didn't get to see the other "sub"fora (China, Japan, Singapore, Thailand...etc) when I arrived at Asia Forum. But now those subfora are at the top of Asia Forum.

How fora are ordered has everything to do with the forum structure, the issue you just raised. It was weird to see the following when I click on the new link to "Europe Forum":

I don't know what's wrong with the setup for Europe Forum. At least when I visit Asia Forum now, every thread is still listed under the newly "squeezed" in subfora (at the top).

ETA:
I agree with you that Europe should be at least at the same level as United States. Geographically or "continentally" speaking, "United States" is smaller than "North America." Should "United States" get higher ranked forum position just because IB is a US-based company? Some standardization of fora categories based on world geography will be a much more welcome revision, IMHO.

FWIW, I do think this is all related and should be part of the existing thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...s-ordered.html

While I don't disagree with you, I think all of the different broad categories could have a vocal member campaigning for the same thing (except maybe Antarctica :p). Since FT and its parent company Internet Brands are based in the US, my guess is that's the reason the US gets "special treatment" (which IMO isn't special treatment). I don't have specific figures to back it up, but my hunch is that intra-US travel is more popular for US citizens than international travel.

Either using MyFlyerTalk as posted previously or clicking directly on "The World" on the forums homepage (instead of clicking on "Travel and Dining") would solve your problem.

As members have "AMPed and there seems to be some agreement the issues are related, and no disruption has been caused to the stream of discussion, the "U.K. and Ireland: Now a sub-forum under Europe?" thread has been merged here for member and Community Director topic continuity. /Moderator

I'm happy to consider giving the continents of the world the same status as the USA. I want folks to have the best member experience possible, and if we can do that thru gentle software tweaks, will do so.

I would appreciate whoever is interested, looking at all the top tier categories under "rest of world" and suggesting how to structure them. For example, there's Cuba and Caribbean that should not be given the same status as Europe and Asia, but then where would they go? I'd be inclined to give Canada and Mexico top tier status, as most of North America is the US which has its own separate section.

Thoughts, please.

As an aside, I'm about to rename the Scandinavia forum "the Nordic countries". The description spoke of the Nordic countries. People were posting their questions about Finland there. A member yesterday was rbping all of them, suggesting they be moved to the Europe forum. That's one solution; yet I think that most are apt to think of the northern countries together. By renaming the Scandinavia forum, it will reflect what actually resides there.

I can't say I'm happy about the apparent discrepancy between say Orlando which is accorded equal status as Germany or the UK & Eire. Really?

As to this being a US owned board blah blah blah... we cannot attract in non-US members if we continue with the mantra that the US is more important. Why would any non-Americans want to spend time on a board where their own country of residence is accorded such little importance?

Why not do away with the artificial distinction between the US and the rest of the world, create a set of forums by continent (and please reunite the ME with Asia,where it belongs, in the current list it's even more tagalong than normal), and then subforum into their constituent parts? So top level forum would be North America, with subforums for US regions, Canada and Mexico... then Europe - with their associated sub forums/constituent parts... etc.

The fact is, as far as "destinations" is concerned, it doesn't really matter where the poster is from, what is important is where he is going to.

I rarely go to the Middle East Forum, for example, because I don't travel to any country in the area with the exception of Israel and, living in that country, I really don't need to get information about it.

I have posted on the Orlando Forum (when I first started planning my trip there) and the Las Vegas Forum before going there.

I don't post much in the Germany forum for similar reasons (plus it gets really boring answering the same questions about castles in Bavaria over and over, when there are already a number of excellent threads available on the subject). It may not be the intent, as some fora have ambassadors who do a really good job of giving advice about 'their' country/region, but I simply don't. I suppose that I feel marginally guilty about not giving back to the community that way, but I can do so in other ways.

Agree on all your points. I was told earlier this year however that this website is primarily for Americans and thus terminology should be presented in a format most suited to American readers. I don't agree and I think many others feeel the same, and I don't know if that really is the intent or the life of this site anymore. Even when it was first created, there were many non-American posters, posting about non-American destinations.

As to the Middle East, I am still extremely puzzled about that one. So it would appear are readers. Questions about Turkey, Azerbaijan, and others are tossed in there more likely due to ignorance about geography and history, but it is debatable if they belong there. They are then difficult to find for those of us looking under other fora for information. (I stumble on those threads via a google search more often than by looking at what I consider the appropriate forum heading)

Thank you however for the efforts which have been made to date, as well as the opportunity to give input. I know that I would use the destination fora more frequently if I could find things more easily.

I would strongly disagree. Egypt is part of the Middle East, yet it is in Africa, not Asia. I believe we should keep a Middle East forum separate from Asia and separate from Africa.

I know that the destination fora subheadings are meant to be descriptive, but perhaps then the Middle East needs to be more defined?

I shudder when I read that, as that is not the case. 35-40% of our moderators are from outside the US. Talkboard has increased its worldwide focus the past 18 months by searching for gaps in coverage of international carriers. I have not observed US-centric focus amongst either group.

Let's give everyone a blank piece of paper. Tell me how you would organize the regional forums. What would be top tier, and what would you move under each?

Thanks. I shuddered as well, then I 'got over it' ;)

As to organisation, that is an interesting one. It's like the world map; depending on where you are in the world, it is laid out differently ie North America is not always in the centre.

However, I would do something such as

'The Americas'
- Canada
- US (with sub fora for the most popular areas, and I agree that Orlando may not be one of them...)
- Mexico
- and so on moving southwards and eastwards to include the various current fora

'Europe'
- UK and Ireland
- France
- Germany
- the Nordic countries
- and so on moving again southwards and eastwards including those pesky countries such as Turkey and the rest of the muddied area on the right hand side of the map which are often classified as Europe, or Asia, or the Middle East, but are really considered Europe

'Africa'
- now it gets messy! Do some of the countries listed as 'Middle East' get listed here?

'Asia'
- India
- China
- etc again moving southwards and eastwards

'Australia' (can't forget them!!)

'Antartica'

Ultimately however, whatever you end up with, someone will be offended, or lost. If the goal is to make things easier to locate, as well as provided some order and logic, then I think that using the continents as a starting point may make sense (although I did group the Americas together)

(Maybe what we really need is a visual map so that posters know where to look. :) )

Using Baku as an example: Awhile back I wanted up to date, recent information. I found little on FT. Now I find little except in the LH forum about a snow delay, and then a rather odd thread in a hotel forum with posts from people who had never been there and were rather uncomplimentary. In the end, I did a google search and found Baku or Azerbaijan mentioned in a few places on FT but I don't believe where I expected to find it on FT ie in the destination forum for that city/country. Ultimately I went elsewhere for information.

More in favor of a "Middle East and North Africa" section if not having the Middle East as a section under Asia.

Africa (Sub-Saharan)
East Asia and Pacific
Europe and Central Asia
North America (excluding Latin America and Caribbean)
Latin America & Caribbean
Middle East & North Africa
South Asia

I would pretty much agree with this; I could perhaps change "South Asia" to "South Asia (Indian sub-continent)", separate the Pacific from East Asia, but overall, I like it.