Motion Passed: Allow Images in Omni and Omni P/R
May 24, 2011, 9:41 am
#16
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I think images would add value to the Omni experience. Particularly now that it is a 'closed' community once more.
I understand the concerns that others express, but I really don't think it makes sense to limit the user experience out of assumptions and fears.
So how about if the TB passes this motion, but the use of images is closely monitored by the TB, and if the problems and abuses of images that folks are scared of do occur, there is a motion to reverse their allowance?
I understand the concerns that others express, but I really don't think it makes sense to limit the user experience out of assumptions and fears.
So how about if the TB passes this motion, but the use of images is closely monitored by the TB, and if the problems and abuses of images that folks are scared of do occur, there is a motion to reverse their allowance?
May 24, 2011, 9:49 am
#17
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As i posted in the "poll thread" about allowing images in OMNI....
I say nay and 
as imho, threads in OMNI and/or OMNI/PR will end up more full of pictures than content (and for me, it's the content that makes OMNI what it is)
as imho, threads in OMNI and/or OMNI/PR will end up more full of pictures than content (and for me, it's the content that makes OMNI what it is)
May 24, 2011, 10:00 am
#18
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Another vote for "No" here.
1)Hotel bandwidths are sometimes slow. Pics will slow load times.
2) Data on mobile devices is expensive. Unlimited data plans aren't standard enough yet.
3) Not everyone will post pictures judiciously. Some may post far too many. Others may post inappropriate content. OMNI is a forum where some may feel confortable posting pornographic content (I recall a boa bites porn model's breast thread which could have been very bad if pics had been allowed).
4) Pics might make this place too much like Facebook. (OK. I'm a little kidding here but I don't want pics all over the place).
If there were some way to make all OMNI pics "Click to view" where the pics are loaded onto FT but aren't downloaded when a page is viewed, I could live with pics. But it would have to be an OMNI-only default not an I have to figure out how to set my account to not display pics when I want to see them in hotel/airline/non-OMNI forums.
BTW, can someone sticky tom911's threads in OMNI and OMNI/PR? I don't think the threads should get buried until all have had an opportunity to see that voting is going on.
1)Hotel bandwidths are sometimes slow. Pics will slow load times.
2) Data on mobile devices is expensive. Unlimited data plans aren't standard enough yet.
3) Not everyone will post pictures judiciously. Some may post far too many. Others may post inappropriate content. OMNI is a forum where some may feel confortable posting pornographic content (I recall a boa bites porn model's breast thread which could have been very bad if pics had been allowed).
4) Pics might make this place too much like Facebook. (OK. I'm a little kidding here but I don't want pics all over the place).
If there were some way to make all OMNI pics "Click to view" where the pics are loaded onto FT but aren't downloaded when a page is viewed, I could live with pics. But it would have to be an OMNI-only default not an I have to figure out how to set my account to not display pics when I want to see them in hotel/airline/non-OMNI forums.
BTW, can someone sticky tom911's threads in OMNI and OMNI/PR? I don't think the threads should get buried until all have had an opportunity to see that voting is going on.
May 24, 2011, 10:01 am
#19
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I supposed this motion is about allowing "embedded" images in OMNI & PR?
(emphasis mine)
How does TB monitor closely the use of images in OMNI(/PR)? Seem like a path to mix TB job with moderation.
I say OMNI, PR included, is fun and interesting enough without embedded images. Probably shouldn't overkill the fun with more visuals. Sometimes less is more and the present is fine.
When a picture is more than a thousand words, folks can always resort to hyperlinks. So for those who are interested in visual stimuli, they can still follow the trace.
Please vote no. Thank you.
How does TB monitor closely the use of images in OMNI(/PR)? Seem like a path to mix TB job with moderation.
I say OMNI, PR included, is fun and interesting enough without embedded images. Probably shouldn't overkill the fun with more visuals. Sometimes less is more and the present is fine.
When a picture is more than a thousand words, folks can always resort to hyperlinks. So for those who are interested in visual stimuli, they can still follow the trace.
Please vote no. Thank you.
May 24, 2011, 10:07 am
#20
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I get people being nervous about it. But I see absolutely no harm in giving it a shot.
After all, many of these same arguments were used against allowing images in all other forums, and yet it has done nothing but improve the user experience.
May 24, 2011, 10:17 am
#21
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Everytime a thread about a pretty or attractive women comes up, I don't want to be bombarded with pictures of her, as men* in the thread basically use it as an opportunity to ogle her. At the moment, links to pictures may be posted, which don't have the immediacy of actually having everyone in the thread responding to pictures which have been posted in the thread.
This type of posting is not against the TOS - you could make the argument it does not sit well with diversity, but the OMNI mods have told me the diversity TOS is not enforced in OMNI - and so would be allowed per Cholula's post above. But that doesn't mean I want to see on FT competitions to see who can find the sexiest picture of <person A>.
No-one on the OMNI threads tried to deny this would occur, only that I (and the others who objected) could turn off images to stop us having to look at these images. Why should I have to turn off images across FT, when I want to look at people's trip reports, pictures of aircraft interiors and pictures of hotels, because some blokes want to look at pictures of women? If this proposal is passed, it is me, and those like me, who seems to be expected to modify my browsing behaviour on FT so that others can look at not quite relevant to FT's purpose in OMNI.
Given there is no clear mandate for change from the OMNI users, given the problems which have already been identified with it (such as this one, the ones about work appropriate images etc), then I'm surprised this has been advanced, and I hope TB will reject it. 'The rest of FT does it' is not a good reason to change, since OMNI is not like the rest of FT.
(*as it would predominantly be men - sorry, but true. Sexy blokes pic's being posted could at least go either way and I don't want to see those either).
This type of posting is not against the TOS - you could make the argument it does not sit well with diversity, but the OMNI mods have told me the diversity TOS is not enforced in OMNI - and so would be allowed per Cholula's post above. But that doesn't mean I want to see on FT competitions to see who can find the sexiest picture of <person A>.
No-one on the OMNI threads tried to deny this would occur, only that I (and the others who objected) could turn off images to stop us having to look at these images. Why should I have to turn off images across FT, when I want to look at people's trip reports, pictures of aircraft interiors and pictures of hotels, because some blokes want to look at pictures of women? If this proposal is passed, it is me, and those like me, who seems to be expected to modify my browsing behaviour on FT so that others can look at not quite relevant to FT's purpose in OMNI.
Given there is no clear mandate for change from the OMNI users, given the problems which have already been identified with it (such as this one, the ones about work appropriate images etc), then I'm surprised this has been advanced, and I hope TB will reject it. 'The rest of FT does it' is not a good reason to change, since OMNI is not like the rest of FT.
(*as it would predominantly be men - sorry, but true. Sexy blokes pic's being posted could at least go either way and I don't want to see those either).
May 24, 2011, 11:01 am
#22
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Oh good grief. I don't see Omni-lite or Omni P/R turning into 'porn central' 
Truthfully I don't think all images that might get posted if this passes will be of people, (male or female). There have been a # of threads where it would have been helpful to FTers to see what an image was like, especially on the horticultural or furnace ones when people were asking for help on something or couldn't describe it properly.
I also think the Omni mods will keep an eye (pardon the pun) on the images & take action if they're inappropriate, if this gets voted yes.
Cheers.
Truthfully I don't think all images that might get posted if this passes will be of people, (male or female). There have been a # of threads where it would have been helpful to FTers to see what an image was like, especially on the horticultural or furnace ones when people were asking for help on something or couldn't describe it properly.
I also think the Omni mods will keep an eye (pardon the pun) on the images & take action if they're inappropriate, if this gets voted yes.
Cheers.
May 24, 2011, 11:34 am
#23
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But an image like this is not inappropriate by FT rules:
However, if, when I'm reading a thread about a hot celebrity, I really don't want it to become a thread about who can find the hottest picture of her.
And I agree, that not all images will be of people. But, I still think the negatives are bigger than the positives in this proposal. Trying to say the mods will be able to deal with this is both brushing off the concerns raised and is incorrect, since there is no TOS breach with the image I have just posted (or I would not have posted it).
However, it doesn't take much to create an atmosphere which is intimidating or unwelcoming, and I do think that this proposal risks creating a forum where sections of our community will feel intimidated.
However, if, when I'm reading a thread about a hot celebrity, I really don't want it to become a thread about who can find the hottest picture of her.
And I agree, that not all images will be of people. But, I still think the negatives are bigger than the positives in this proposal. Trying to say the mods will be able to deal with this is both brushing off the concerns raised and is incorrect, since there is no TOS breach with the image I have just posted (or I would not have posted it).
However, it doesn't take much to create an atmosphere which is intimidating or unwelcoming, and I do think that this proposal risks creating a forum where sections of our community will feel intimidated.
May 24, 2011, 11:41 am
#24
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I totally agree with this position.
People always have the option of turning off images if they are concerned.
If they are a moderator, they can always have a second account for their "business duties" and use a personal account when they want to view Omni.
We cannot always do things for the lowest common denominator.
William
People always have the option of turning off images if they are concerned.
If they are a moderator, they can always have a second account for their "business duties" and use a personal account when they want to view Omni.
We cannot always do things for the lowest common denominator.
William
I think images would add value to the Omni experience. Particularly now that it is a 'closed' community once more.
I understand the concerns that others express, but I really don't think it makes sense to limit the user experience out of assumptions and fears.
So how about if the TB passes this motion, but the use of images is closely monitored by the TB, and if the problems and abuses of images that folks are scared of do occur, there is a motion to reverse their allowance?
I understand the concerns that others express, but I really don't think it makes sense to limit the user experience out of assumptions and fears.
So how about if the TB passes this motion, but the use of images is closely monitored by the TB, and if the problems and abuses of images that folks are scared of do occur, there is a motion to reverse their allowance?
May 24, 2011, 11:51 am
#25
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Just looking on the front page of OMNI this morning, I see a few threads where photos could be useful. For example, threads on a championship tennis match, eyewear, the NBA and NHL, could all be enhanced with photos. The long running Costco thread on the second page could be enhanced by photos of the products FTers are purchasing and raving about.
I have full faith in the OMNI moderators to keep inappropriate material off their forum. The moderators on the travel side have done an excellent job with images there.
I have full faith in the OMNI moderators to keep inappropriate material off their forum. The moderators on the travel side have done an excellent job with images there.
May 24, 2011, 12:35 pm
#26
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But an image like this is not inappropriate by FT rules:
However, if, when I'm reading a thread about a hot celebrity, I really don't want it to become a thread about who can find the hottest picture of her.
And I agree, that not all images will be of people. But, I still think the negatives are bigger than the positives in this proposal. Trying to say the mods will be able to deal with this is both brushing off the concerns raised and is incorrect, since there is no TOS breach with the image I have just posted (or I would not have posted it).
However, it doesn't take much to create an atmosphere which is intimidating or unwelcoming, and I do think that this proposal risks creating a forum where sections of our community will feel intimidated.
However, if, when I'm reading a thread about a hot celebrity, I really don't want it to become a thread about who can find the hottest picture of her.
And I agree, that not all images will be of people. But, I still think the negatives are bigger than the positives in this proposal. Trying to say the mods will be able to deal with this is both brushing off the concerns raised and is incorrect, since there is no TOS breach with the image I have just posted (or I would not have posted it).
However, it doesn't take much to create an atmosphere which is intimidating or unwelcoming, and I do think that this proposal risks creating a forum where sections of our community will feel intimidated.
I did not expect images in this thread, and as such, was a bit taken aback when I saw that, with a, "Ugh... just what I need on my computer screen at work."
I can see how too often, the thread title will not reflect the images that are posted in that thread, and how it could lead to non-work appropriate images being visible while at work.
I also agree that it could easily create an intimidating or unwelcoming atmosphere, and one which, with the current TOS, could be allowed to continue without any sort of moderation.
May 24, 2011, 12:55 pm
#27
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I think pictures are fine. As with anything else OMNI, if it's abused the mods can deal with abusers. The same arguments against pictures could be applied to OMNI itself, yet OMNI has been ticking along nicely for many years.
May 24, 2011, 1:22 pm
#28
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Ok to those that are saying things like
Do you consider the image I have posted inappropriate?
Do you consider 30 such images in a thread inappropriate?
Do you think that some women (and possibly some men) will find threads full of images such as that unwelcoming and intimidating?
How would you see moderators handling images like this, bearing in mind that some women really do not want to be faced with drooling threads in a forum where upto now they've felt quite comfortable and welcome?
Such a thing would potentially be a breach of FT rules. OMNI has post and time restrictions for viewing, which makes it virtually impossible to use a shiny new personal account to see it. And finally, again - it's about those who are objecting to this change who are being expected to make the allowances to accommodate it. It's the 'too bad, we want it, you'll just have to change what you currently do now' that I really object to. Why should I be forced to amend how I use/view FT, just because you want to see pictures in OMNI? 
I'm still not sure what the benefit is that means I should be forced to change how I use FT? So far I've been told I need to register a second hand, wait 180 days and post 180 times to continue to use OMNI, or to limit my ability to see pictures in all forums... for what? Please enumerate the massive benefit which outweighs the inconvenience you are expecting me to go to on your behalf?
Originally Posted by PTravel
he mods can deal with abusers
Originally Posted by tom911
I have full faith in the OMNI moderators to keep inappropriate material off their forum
Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
the Omni mods will keep an eye (pardon the pun) on the images & take action if they're inappropriate
Do you consider 30 such images in a thread inappropriate?
Do you think that some women (and possibly some men) will find threads full of images such as that unwelcoming and intimidating?
How would you see moderators handling images like this, bearing in mind that some women really do not want to be faced with drooling threads in a forum where upto now they've felt quite comfortable and welcome?
If they are a moderator, they can always have a second account for their "business duties" and use a personal account when they want to view Omni.
I'm still not sure what the benefit is that means I should be forced to change how I use FT? So far I've been told I need to register a second hand, wait 180 days and post 180 times to continue to use OMNI, or to limit my ability to see pictures in all forums... for what? Please enumerate the massive benefit which outweighs the inconvenience you are expecting me to go to on your behalf?
May 24, 2011, 1:51 pm
#29
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Do you consider 30 such images in a thread inappropriate?
Do you think that some women (and possibly some men) will find threads full of images such as that unwelcoming and intimidating?
How would you see moderators handling images like this, bearing in mind that some women really do not want to be faced with drooling threads in a forum where upto now they've felt quite comfortable and welcome?
Such a thing would potentially be a breach of FT rules. OMNI has post and time restrictions for viewing, which makes it virtually impossible to use a shiny new personal account to see it. And finally, again - it's about those who are objecting to this change who are being expected to make the allowances to accommodate it. It's the 'too bad, we want it, you'll just have to change what you currently do now' that I really object to. Why should I be forced to amend how I use/view FT, just because you want to see pictures in OMNI?
I'm still not sure what the benefit is that means I should be forced to change how I use FT? So far I've been told I need to register a second hand, wait 180 days and post 180 times to continue to use OMNI, or to limit my ability to see pictures in all forums... for what? Please enumerate the massive benefit which outweighs the inconvenience you are expecting me to go to on your behalf?
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1. We've always done it this way.
2. We've never done it that way."
May 24, 2011, 1:55 pm
#30
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I'll add my 2 cents, again 
FT and Omni are very male heavy. I would guess that at least 2/3 of the posters are male. I think it's even a larger number in Omni.
I find those types of pictures offensive and bothersome for all the reasons noted by the other women in this thread. Kipper, myself, Jenbel - none of us want to open a thread that has nothing to do with bikini clad women and find one in there. Plus, I don't consider it appropriate to show up on my computer at work.
It's bad enough we are continuously subjected to locker room talk about women's looks - do we actually have to look at those types of pictures?
FT and Omni are very male heavy. I would guess that at least 2/3 of the posters are male. I think it's even a larger number in Omni.
I find those types of pictures offensive and bothersome for all the reasons noted by the other women in this thread. Kipper, myself, Jenbel - none of us want to open a thread that has nothing to do with bikini clad women and find one in there. Plus, I don't consider it appropriate to show up on my computer at work.
It's bad enough we are continuously subjected to locker room talk about women's looks - do we actually have to look at those types of pictures?