+1

At the Chicago DO the sponsors had a session, which was optional, where they gave a talk of some sort. E.g. ITA Software was there and shared what they are, besides just a tool for constructing mileage running, what they use the matrix for (sales presentations), whether they intended to keep matrix1 running. I really don't know what the value to them of sponsoring and being in front of folks was.

Disney Vacations was a sponsor, and clearly they were pitching timeshares, which I'm not sure a lot of folks were interested in but from their perspective they had travelers who might be interested.

IIRC sponsors had the opportunity to have a booth set up at the hotel in Chicago as well, though I never went by the sponsor area.

I guess I ought to let Rick or toomanybooks speak to the sponsor piece, since I was just a speaker and don't have direct knowledge.

Similarly, with the Frequent Traveler University, for the most part I don't think the sponsors actually really get anything of value to them. My take from a distance (I don't work with the sponsors for that either, again I'm just speaking) is that tommy was getting them to sponsor the Frequent Traveler Awards, just as they had sponsored the Freddies (there the value proposition for some sponsors is clearer, as leadership of many of their loyalty program customers and potential customers are at the awards). And since tommy was getting them to support one event, I'd guess he managed to squeeze a little extra to help offset some costs and make it more affordable for folks to come. I can't imagine what benefit, say, an American Express might have from sponsoring an educational seminar or the sort...

If I'm mistaken about any of the above I apologize, I don't work with the sponsors :)

As far as meeting planner points, I have no idea. Some hotels it's an option to receive them, other times you can use what would be received in terms of points to pay down the bill. Have no idea how things are handled at any of the events referenced here, since I'm not involved on the business end of them at all. Not that it would bother me if someone did get points out of it. When a DO organizer gets everyone to pay for a dinner upfront and then they put the meal on their credit card, they get the points for that.

As far as whether a speaker has the opportunity to advance their business? Well most speakers don't have businesses. But let me speak for myself.

I donn't pitch my award booking business at all, because as I've explained the type of folks who come to these events are just not my target market. Someone looking to learn the tricks and tools of booking awards is just not the same person who wants to write a decent-sized check to have it all done for them.

And I'd also always rather still teach someone how to do it for themselves than I would take money to do it.

My customers tend to be busy professionals or higher net worth retirees, folks with lots of points often from credit card spend with no real idea how to go about using those points but with specific goals in mind, perhaps they're working with a luxury travel agent on specailty tours of Italy and figure they can use their points for their premium cabin airfare, or they've booked high end cruises and have a million Amex points or more but just don't even know how to get started in using them.

It's worth it to them to pay someone to untangle the web and handle everything soup to nuts.

When someone who is interested in learning the ins and outs contacts me, I usually push back and tell them I'd rather just offer a few suggestiosn and see if they can't learn to fish...

Anyway, so that's a long way of saying that when I accept an invite to speak at one of these things I'm not at all doing it to pitch my services, since I don't see the people at the event as my customer base.

Others may approach it differently, but then recall that at least to the best of my knowledge not many of the speakers have anything to sell. I don't recall any speaker who was not a sponsor at the Chicago event pitching services in any way.

Not that I'd see anything wrong with it, if the services were genuinely useful to the audience. But just answering as asked, no I haven't seen anything of the sort.

By the way, are we really that worried that someone who puts in hundreds of hours to host a DO might wind up with meeting planner points? Hah, I'd think that would be celebrated!

I mean, it's a legitimate part of the hotel programs. And it's really not that generous, except/unless there are major special prmotions like you sometimes saw at the depths of the Great Recession a couple of years ago but that are now long gone.

I don't knwo the details of any Priority Club program off the top of my head, but let's take round numbers from the Chicago Seminar DO. The host hotel is the Holiday Inn Elk Grove Village, let's call it 150 rooms and 2 room nights, so 300 room nights @ $100 per night. That's $30k.

Again, since off the top of my head I don't know how Priority Club awards points, let's go with the one I do know, Starwood... 1 point for every $3 of spend.

That's a whopping 10,000 Starpoints.

How awful, someone might collect those SPG points! I guess that someone who plans a meeting for 150-300 people, we must be really careful to make sure they don't wind up with 10,000 Starpoints out of it.

We also need a rule, I think, that says any DO organizer who pays for a meal on their credit card can only use a non-points earning credit card since we've got to make sure they don't get anything out of it personally! @:-)

Oh, and they need to sign a form indicating that they will never return to the restaurant or bar again, because otherwise the owner might comp them a drink or two as a thanks for bringing over the business. :rolleyes:

Yep, that's it. Hopefully the TalkBoard will act on these suggestions right away. :p

Now, if you think they're too stringent then I would suggest that either

1. Instead of a no points earning card requirement, the DO organizer only be permitted to pay for a meal with a Delta American Express. (If the DO is in Europe, a card which earns points only in the Flying Blue program will do.)

2. Instead of requiring that a DO organizer never return to the DO venue in the future, for fear they might be treated better as a rsult of organizing the DO, how about assuming they will get better treatment -- valuing the treatment up front (a standard risk-adjusted NPV calculation will be fine) -- and requiring them to pay upfront the amount of the presumed benefit in exchange for the privilege of hosting a DO?

I believe either of these proposals should be workable, and it's imperative that the TalkBoard begin voting on my proposals now, before start of business Monday morning in Europe. :p

1) I am an expert (among many other experts) and I think its fine to expect others to compensate me (us) for my (our) expertise/time/efforts.

2) I (and other speakers/organizers) have chosen not to receive the compensation it would be fine for us to receive.

3) Because we have generously chosen to give without gaining that which would be normal/fine for us to gain (financial benefit for our time/expertise), it is offensive for you to suggest we have done so.

4) Travel expense reimbursement (expenses that would not have been incurred if we did not choose to benefit the community in this manner) ≠ compensation.

Why shouldn't Do's evolve into bigger and better events that benefit the participants even if someone (horrors) makes $10 or even $1000?

In actuality, the Chicago Do was overrun by newbies unlikely to spend countless hours reading old FT threads. Brilliant idea to make it all available in one weekend and kudos to them for investing the time to improve their travel experience. We all know how clueless even our immediate family members can be about readily available benefits no matter how many times we try to explain. I've been here ten years and learned from everyone in Chicago, especially Gary (thank you!). I was amazed the speakers would give up their personal time, let alone spend it in a Holiday Inn room when we all have lots of SPG points :). And they're willing to do it again, God bless them. And thanks to Sharon who ran herself ragged working on the very successful raffle.

If FT is going to continue to grow and meet people's needs we should applaud new forms of delivering the valuable information shared here or elsewhere. Do we mock people that go to Weight Watchers instead of reading diet books? Take classes when there are online tutorials available? Or going non-profit, why go to church and fellowship and listen to a pastor when you can read the bible and listen to sermons at home? It's marvelous to get all that talent, experience and willingness to give back in one place. In the long run, no one can profit without delivering value and clearly the participants think these seminars do.

Great post. And I'm not saying that due to the shout out re: the charity raffle. I love the new forms of delivering valuable info concept & your analogies. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Cheers.

I was a speaker at the Chicago Do
 

I joined Flyertalk in June of 2009 after lurking for a few years. The impedes for my joining was that while returning from an independent Australia milage run I ran into LLM at LAX and noticed a FT luggage tag on her carry-on. Se was coming home from Ozfest. We got to talking about miles and she sort of chastised me for lurking and not contributing to the forum. Within a week I started contributing and feel that I have made an honest effort to contribute on a regular basis, especially in the coins thread.

When I has contacted early in 2010 by Ingy he stated that he wanted to have a Legends of Flyertalk session and offered me a time slot to make a presentation. I was humbled to even be considered to make a presentation, let alone at a "Legends" session.

At the time it was offered it was fully understood by me that I would be paying all of my own expenses. When the DO opened up for registration the speakers were given about 3 days advanced notice so we could book our own hotel at the conference location before it sold out. I booked the hotel with my own credit card fully expecting to pay my own way.

I do not have a vested interest in any of the companies, vendors or sponsors of this event. Until this week I did not even have a website. So there was not a financial incentive to present or promote myself at the event. I presented information because I was grateful for all of the Flyertalk predecessors who have paved the way for me to learn and I wanted to give back to this community. I was simply amazed at the kindness of all of the Flyertalker's present especially the ones who came up to me and said that they could not attend on Sunday and I gave at least 3 mini sessions in the bar on Saturday. The generosity of everyone who bought raffle tickets to raise money for charity, Ingy offering copies of his book to raise money for Wounded Warriors was simply overwhelming. Because of this, and I would have never thought of it on my own, I ended up giving 4 UAL regional upgrades to soldiers that I have run into in the airport.

My flight last year was paid for by using a UAL skykit (no charge) and I earned a bump voucher ($400 + one night at ORD Hilton) on the return. I paid for meals and registration for my +1. Off site meals, bar tab and the Sunday night hotel (Westin) was paid out of pocket.

This year after some back and forth emails with Ingy I agreed to speak again on another topic. I do not consider myself a travel expert, but I do have considerable experience both in business, finance and travel. I can't tell you how many times I have been told that I should write a book. My ability to navigate through the miles and points maze comes naturally for me, but I am always open to learning new tricks. When I agreed to speak this year again I had no expectation to be reimbursed for any of my expenses. The gesture has been made that if the finances work out the organizers are offering to reimburse for airfare (with a limit) and hotel at the meeting. Of course speakers are not subject to the meeting registration fee.

I feel that the gesture was kind, but my participation is not conditional on the offer. If the finances do not work out, there is no way that I would be upset. I can tell you that I put forth my best effort last year to present a polished session and will do so this year again. I am a professional and once I commit to something, my presentation will be the best it can be regardless of the "compensation".

Just a couple of weeks ago I was told by SanDiego1K that she considered that my presence at the Chicago Seminar Do was a draw for many attendees. As the second to last speaker, I could tell that there were many in the audience standing with their luggage and they did not leave until after my presentation. Each and every speaker was a draw for their specialty and that is why there were over 500 seats sold out in such a short period of time. It was a recognition of the value for the seminar. All of the financial aspects were always presented to the attendees in advance to the registration. Both Ingy and Toomanybooks have shown the highest level of professionalism it the organization and execution of the Chicago Seminar Do. The after event survey results were also made public and substantiate this.

The Chicago Seminar Do was not, is not, and I believe in the future will not be in the category of a commercial event.

1.Sponsors paid a fee to set up a table with their products and the chance to speak to 400+ frequent travelers. Some have already renewed this year

2. We did not get meeting points last year and are not getting them this year.

3. Anytime you speak in front of a group you have the opportunity to advance your personal business or product if you choose to. I introduced Gary and to the best of my recollection I did not mention his award booking service. I had to leave so did not hear his presentation. I did attend Lucky's presentation and again don't recall making his award booking service part of his introduction and it certainly was not a part of his presentation. Same holds true for VJ's presentation. VJ was not only a speaker but a sponsor paying for the right to talk about his Mileage Running assistance.

As far as my own potential for "profit" I did bring 100 copies of my book to the event and donated them along with all the proceeds to the non profit Independence Fund for Wounded Warriors. All profits from my book now go monthly to the Wounded Warriors Fund.

We tried to collect a meeting planners fee this time year so we could donate it back to the cause, but were unable to with the Holiday Inn. We were able to negotiate some comped rooms to help cover the cost of housing our speakers. It is my desire to cover their airfare from Sponsor Fees, but if unsuccessful every single registrant has read in the first post of this thread that we are budgeting part of their registration to cover that expense. They are 100% aware of the finances and will attend or not based on full disclosure.

And if we have any extra funds, they will all be donated to charities picked by myself, toomanybooks (as organizers) and SkiAdcock (running the raffle and a TB member)

Some clarification & speaking as a regular FTer & not as a TB member...

I've not yet committed to ORD Sem Do 2 yet due to checking my schedule & seeing if I'm available, but I did say that if I do attend (and I'll let them know soon) that I will chair the charity raffle again. We raised a lot of $$ for charity, and I am so proud of my fellow FTers for their generosity, and the FTers who stepped up to the plate who helped me w/ selling tickets. And we got the appropriate legal permit from Elk Grove Village to actually hold the raffle; it was all above board.

As a regular attendee of CSD1 I paid my own registration, hotel and transportation. After the event was over, ingy gave me a Marriott gift card as a thank you. It was not mentioned before & I was not expecting it. I signed up hoping to learn more about miles & points in the sessions, and seeing LOTS of other FTers in a social environment. The sessions I attended I learned a lot. I was not able to attend them all due to charity raffle activities, and I missed out on the meals because I was still running around selling tickets.

What ingy, toomanybooks & other FTers don't know (save 1) is that I helped subsidize the charity prizes last year. I had lined up electronics, hotel stays, as prizes & was quite excited about what FTers could win. But some of the people dropped out on what they committed to & did so at the last minute (grr). So I spent $350 of my own $$ to buy the Kindle and other electronics that were given away as prizes because I didn't want to let FTers down. I'm not mentioning it now for any kudos (some would say I was stoo-pid to buy the stuff), but it goes back to the spirit of making the event the fab one that it was.

I personally don't think the ORD Sem Do is a commercial venture, and I really like LLM's concept of different ways of delivering info to FTers. While I get that some FTers think Dos are only social events, the reality is that they're more than that. They're also venues for sharing info. If one venue requires an admin fee to cover the meals, a/v, and yes part of speakers expenses, I'm ok w/ that for myself as long as everything is disclosed up front. Other FTers can make the decision for themselves, but given the attendees last year & the # that have signed up already for this year others seem to feel the same way.

On a dif note. I've organized the President London Do for several years. I can probably count on 2-3 fingers the times I've put the main meal on my cc, and that was due to other FTers encouraging me to do so. In fact, one restaurant we went to for a few years in a row I made arrangements for them to do individual credit cards - all 36 of them! I actually pay cash the entire weekend nowadays rather than try to put the bill on my credit card. There are too many FTers who would like the points & quite frankly life's too short & there are more important things than grabbing a bill for points, although I realize that's blasphemy here.

Cheers.

Mr Pickles,
Any chance you and other presenters at the DO's post your presentations?

Would be nice for those who cannot attend for various reasons to learn from the savviest travelers.

Hope FT moderators can coordinate something for presentation material posted on FT on the next DO!!!!!!!!!

Did anyone post a detailed summary on the seminar details?

Several people wrote a summary. Did anyone write a step by step guide? No, because there was so much information that most attendees were in awe by the facy that they were able to get in.

I have no doubt that this single event has the potential to grow to a larger venue, over 3 days and over 1000 attendees with multiple track sessions. Many attendees were tweeting information and summaries and it had its own twitter hash tag #CSDO1, this years event is #CSDO2.

I don't recall anyone writing a detailed summary for any DO with all of the tricks of the trade outlined and charted for the benefit of those choose to not attend.

Is there a posting you can direct me too? All I see is a high level comment that someone attended DO event, met a few experts, and learned good ideas for the future.

Doesn't sound like with all of the forums of the community, travel etc that anyone attempted a good summary so others that couldn't attend can learn.

Isn't that what FT is all about? FT's sharing experiences and information?

Maybe this can change for the April 2011 DO in NY, Chicago October 2011, an informative summary of the event.

Dupe.

Lots of good information on this thread. I'm glad I started it. ;):p

I do think this is a very timely discussion.

As I've said from the start, what *I* see is creeping commercialism. Maybe simply because, as a someone with lots of experience with meeting planning, I see the potential.

A 'business side' of this sort of endeavor, particularly with big-name sponsors involved, has clearly evolved. From all I have read, no one is making a killing on this...yet. Just some free plane tickets and comped hotel rooms and so forth. And sure, in the past, any Randy-involved events were rightly exempt from the TOS no-commercial-venture requirements, because the point of the commercial prohibition was to make sure that no one made money or gained benefit here but Randy or someone else with his express permission . But Randy ain't here no more. And so Randy-type commercial events are no longer TOS exempt...are they?

Bottom line: as skofarrell says, these aren't really Dos. They are a product (FF expertise) that are being marketed hard for a fee, sold and are bought. Perhaps on a 'non-profit' basis, but a transactional ventures nonetheless. And the reality is that 'non-profit' events like the CES have evolved into incredibly profitable ventures for their sponsors.

I'm at the point where I'm almost ready to make a specific recommendation to the TalkBoard to make to make to IB. But before I do that, I may want to try to sell my Many Points seminar to IB. ;):D:p:eek: