Roger

I'm hoping that a fellow FTer with Swiss experience can advise on this personal matter.

A family member resident in the UK has her Swiss pension paid into an account with UBS. She uses this to fund her visits in Switzerland.

The mighty UBS has written to say that from 1 April, she will have to pay 30 CHF per month to maintain this account unless she has 50,000 CHF with them, a numbered account or one of a few other qualifications. She has had this account for 50 years.

Leaving aside the absurdity of charging a relatively high amount on a small account, UBS has given her just two weeks' notice of this significant change. That alone would breach UK rules which I believe require two months' notice of such a change.

Other than transferring 50,000 CHF to UBS (a mountain to crack a molehill), there must be alternatives to UBS for her to receive her pension, which has to be paid into a Swiss bank account.

I have suggested that she must write to UBS to at least postpone the new charge on the basis that two weeks' notice is inadequate. Can FTers suggest what else she should do and advise whether other institutions can offer her an account without the 30 CHF monthly fee.

She (and I) will be very grateful for you advice.

catandmouse

UBS announced this earlier this year, but I agree it's unfair to give only a couple of week's notice on this. However, probably a waste of time arguing or taking legal action. Swiss banks are pretty well protected. UBS claims these huge charges for non-resident accounts to compensate for the cost they have in supplying information to the tax authorities (in particular the IRS).
I would suggest trying to look around for alternative solutions. I appreciate this may not be easy if you don't plan to be visit Switzerland, but to open a back account in Switzerland, you will in any case at some stage have to pay a visit and be seen by someone from the bank.
I would suggest having a look at the websites of the various banks (I'm assuming from the tone of the OP that we're looking at relatively small amounts, not private banking). The bank websites all have some indication of their charges, but you will probably have to contact them directly to see if they are prepared to open non-resident current accounts and how much they would cost. I would certainly have a look at the Swiss cantonal banks, as well as Raiffeisen, Migros. It will also depend where your "point of contact" in Switzerland is. All the banks these days offer pretty efficient e-banking, so once your account is opened it should be pretty easy to manage remotely. I don't go into my own bank more than once or twice a year.

Roger

Thanks very much, catandmouse, for your quick and helpful response.

I have already suggested Migros Bank (she used to work at Migros before she came to the UK) and the Kantonal banks. She's reluctant to change from UBS - after 50 years I'd probably feel the same way - but 30 CHF a month is too much. She'll be in CH in April so can do the visiting then.

She wouldn't dream of suing UBS but she needs breathing space, and two weeks isn't breathing space so she must write to object IMO.

GK1998

convincing UBS to waive or postpone the fee will not work. one goal of these fees is that it "encourages" holders of accounts with low balances to switch to other banks.

it has also become increasingly difficult to open an account at the Kantonalbanken as a foreigner with no residency status in Switzerland.

airoli

As per what catandmouse said, a switch away from UBS (which, along with CS, has made it abundantly clear that it is no longer interested in "small fish" non-resident business) will be the only way to avoid the fee. Among Swiss expats, I have heard that some of the Kantonalbanken, as well as PostFinance may be good alternatives. PostFinance is nice because their "Plus" account plan (over CHF25'000 of assets) comes with an ATM card that does not charge withdrawal fees anywhere in the world.

Fendant

Yep, the rules changed beginning of the year and are mainly aimed at discourgaing US citizens to maintain small bank accounts. If she is citizen and/or resident of the UK it should be no problem to switch to a local Kantonalbank or as suggested to Postfinance.
However if she is a non CH resident US citizen I would strongly suggest to bite the bullet and stay with UBS and their rip-off charges. It is unlikely to impossible that any other CH bank will accept the opening of an account for a non resident US citizen.

Roger

Thanks, folks, for the great advice.

Well, she's a Swiss citizen currently living in the UK with aspirations of returning at some stage. Her former address lapsed when her parents died though she uses another family member's postal address when appropriate.

UBS don't exactly shine here. If the decision was made some months ago, it would have been prudent to let their account holders know about it, even if one of 50 years' standing may not be very important. Anyway, let's contact UBS. E-mail? No, don't be silly. Phone? Well there's the main number attached to a Postfach address where the two managing directors apparently live. Or perhaps the Beratungsteam in Paradeplatz? After all, they have a phone and a fax. (Memo to UBS: the world has moved on. It uses e-mail. I can't remember the last time I sent a fax.)

OK, the website shown in the letter - there are lots of links at ubs.com, some of which look relevant. Let's try this: 'UBS will be with you throughout your life: (various alternatives including) - in the middle of life'. Oh dear. 'Page not found'.

Harrumph. Migros, Postfinance and the Kantonal banks are looking interesting.

One curiosity: UBS say charges for the second quarter will be made at the end of June (90 CHF). I wonder what they would do if the balance was reduced to say 0.01 CHF before then. This would at least allow her to make alternative arrangements.

matt in france

I got the same Letter from UBS yesterday (I work in Basel but live in Alsace). The fee is ridiculous, but I don't have to pay it as one of the qualifications is to be resident in France, Germany, Austria or Italy, and receive a monthly Salary paid into the Account of at least 500 CHF.

Could she maybe just have the nominal address that the Account is held at changed (this other address in Switzerland you mention)? All Account movements could be done via e-banking anyway, so the address is just nominal these days, anyway.

Fendant

Well in this case make sure that the overdraft facility is also reduced to 0 !

begemot

I think this is the way to go, if you have family in CH just change it to their address. I did something like this for a friend. He filled something out so the postman knew that my name was the right mailbox for his stuff.

JohnDP

please don't underestimate the fact that the reason for these absurd charges is to get rid of "small" customers whilst potentially being still liable for tax charges. That means that the days are gone from when the IRS, or other tax departments ignored the little fish, now actually they chase anything they can and they poke at the Swiss banks.

Roger

Thanks for all the helpful advice, folks.

So far as compliance is concerned, no problems there. She pays withholding tax in Switzerland and income tax in the UK, for which she gets a credit for the withholding tax. I seriously doubt that UBS's costs in maintaining her account are anywhere near those of those with higher deposits or a numbered account. And yes, of course UBS don't want the little fish. That's a principle of banks worldwide AFAIK.

The suggested option of using a family member's address looks good to me, at least in the short term. She has a doubt, though. A friend of hers in a similar position tried and it didn't work.

Nevertheless, this is work in progress. She (= I) is/am assembling info prior to her next visit in a couple of weeks. Thanks again!

Fendant

Using a friend's and or other family member adress unfortunately does not work. UBS is now commanding a copy of the passport with Swiss domicile and the residence permit( for foreigners ) or "Heimatschein" (for Swiss ).

Roger

Thanks, Fendant. Well, that's one less thing to check tomorrow.