goodness gracious! i'm trying to go with the spirit of the new forums. it is takeing a little time to learn the navigation. so far, if i go to ft travel & want to get back to ft miles, i quit & sign on again. must be a better way.

Hi, clacko.

On the first page of each forum group (FT Miles, FT Travel, etc) there is a pull-down menu on the upper left side of the screen labeled "Additional FlyerTalk Forums". By using this menu you can easily jump from one place to the next (I hope!).

i went to the top of this. got nowhere except flyer talk miles forums!

Clacko,

See my response here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/005013.html

If you need more help, feel free to e-mail me.

It appears that lots of people are correctly rebelling against the use of unacceptable language by the moderators and not for moving posts. Who is going to moderate intemperate and barely nice moderators?

Interesting comments from someone so new. Welcome to FlyerTalk 100000.

I think that moderators are serving an important purpose. However, I would encourage them to use discretion whenever possible, and *always* give the user the benefit of the doubt.

They should act in cases where a post is clearly incorrectly posted, or where a thread has devolved to the point of providing no useful information (e.g. a flame war). The only other time they should act should be to consolidate threads -- as Burkey did so beautifully in the recent AA Gold Comp deluge.

I hope that Randy will have confidence in his moderators and that they will stand by his side when he will be slapped with some massive lawsuites as a result of breaching the Freedom of Speech Act. Wasn't it the 1st Amendement?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Randy, are you listening?

Spider: Freedom of speech is not total unrestrained freedom. Are there not limitations on freedom of speech such as libel/slander and dissemination of hate literature?

More importantly though, don't forget that, in the end, this is someone's private house we are in. We must play by the rules of the house, so to speak. These rules include directives such as "stay on topic" and "post in the correct place". If one feels one's freedom of speech is being infringed upon here, you are free in going to another bulletin board or establishing your own.

I'm not sure how your quote re: Congress applies here or lends support to your argument. This is not the government. Perhaps there is a different section more suitable for this situation.

FewMiles..

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I learned (on this FlyerTalk Board - thank you) that the 'US constitutional freedom of speech' has nothing/little to do with the freedom of private (non-governemental) organizations/individuals freedom to put up restrictive 'regulations/limitations/rules' how to communicate and what is/should be tolerated and what not.

This is not anyone's private house (including Randy's) as per letter of the law. This "house" is on the internet and open to the public. One does not need a key (secret password unobtainable to the general public) to get into it.

As far as me going somewhere else, then why should I? I've been here long enough (prior to moderators) learning and giving good advice. I've never had any problems here nor have I initiated any flame wars. Besides, there are a number of people here who agree with what I am saying. Are you saying that all who oppose censors should leave this board? Is this your way of democracy?


This is a magazine/board based in the USA and thus bound by the laws of the US. As far as a different section goes then why don't you find one that has a rate of participation as high as this one and then make your suggestion. No need to throw hot air around.


Rudi, with all due respect, you have made the same posting in several forums already. Is your "copy + paste" stuck? If you want to make your point, don't you think it would be more appropriate to model it accordingly?

I'll let the "magazine/board" part go for sake of argument.

We are indeed bound by the laws of the U.S. There is no law in the US that says a privately owned entity (magazine, newspaper, company, etc) must allow unrestricted speech at all times. There is also no law prohibiting the formulation of codes of speech and/or conduct by private organizations. Indeed, as far as I know (and I haven't studied recent case law on this, all attempts to overturn such "speech codes" on first amendment grounds have been thrown out by the US courts.

I know from other posts that you're talking about the 1st Amendment. Read it. "Congress shall make no law..."

Textually, the only entity that can violate the first amendment is the federal government, although judicial review has expanded it to state governments as well.

[This message has been edited by SuperSlug (edited 08-15-2001).]

You're absolutely correct that it is publically readable and is not really private per se in that sense. But who paid for the server, who hosts the website? This is the component that is privately owned and that is what makes it someone's "house". You realize that the owners of a website are responsible for the content posted on it? That is why they, in their terms of service, always reserve the right to remove postings they deem inappropriate. In terms of a "cover your ..." mentality, this alone is an infringement of your freedom of speech, is it not?

Nobody is saying you have to go anywhere. What am saying is that part of your freedom of speech, as protected by your country's constitution, is the freedom to go elsewhere to make your opinion known.

Well, I oppose censorship too. Let's both leave this board, then, shall we?

Seriously though, no one is censoring this post of yours is there? They may have moved the thread to the more appropriate forum, i.e. Suggestions, but that is hardly a form of censorship.

And as for democracy? Since when is this truly a democracy? This is not the government. This is a privately owned and operated board. It belongs to Randy Petersen and his company, but is provided to the general public through his generosity.

I agree with you there, but methinks you misinterpreted what I meant. This is my fault for not explaining more clearly. What I was trying to say was that the first amendment section you quoted applies to the government not being allowed to curtail the freedom of speech etc. I am basically asking: Is there some other section of the constitution more appropriate to this situation? Sorry, I am not familiar with your country's constitution.

Might I suggest humbly that that is what Rudi feels about the situation and the way he chooses to make his point is to say the same thing wherever this debate is cropping up? Your "is your copy+paste stuck?" sentence - was that really necessary?

A good debate so far!
FewMiles..


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This is a private house in the same way that a store is a private business.

Yes, both are open to the public, but only (with a few minor exceptions) for the purpose of the business. Even though the local fruit stand may admit any member of the public during business hours, it can prevent its visitors from selling their own wares in the store and can expel anyone who violates the store's rules of conduct or who presents a danger to the owners, employees, and other customers.

This is Mr. Petersen's house. He has invited the public in to read what they wish, and has invited those members of the public who are willing to follow certain rules to post messages here. He has chosen to have the messages and threads moderated. Whether we agree or disagree with his decision, it is his decision to make, and not ours.

I think the level of moderating will settle down as FT posters get a better understanding that the guidelines about posting will be enforced.



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"Yes, but at least mine will be found in a first class seat." -- Peattie and Taylor