FAQ: Starwood and 3rd party bookings: any benefits? stay credits?
May 31, 2009, 11:46 pm
#61
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Singapore
Programs: SPG
Posts: 4,002
I have reported this issue to the mighty powers for more advice on this since I do not set the rules on the eligibility of such rates.
But like I have always mentioned in my posts, reservations(except award rates) booked via spg.com or CCC are eligible for stay or starpoint credits
unless otherwise stated(or mentioned in this case).
[email protected]
Thyetus Lee | Online Forum Coordinator(AP)
Starwood Customer Contact Centre (AP) Pte Ltd
Jun 1, 2009, 12:13 am
#62
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA
Programs: SPG Lifetime PP ; Hyatt Globalist ; Nexus
Posts: 950
Thanks for passing the information to the mighty powers.
I think it's purely wrong for local deciding the eligibility, which should be the power of program service. Otherwise, a country or a hotel can just arbitrally say this promo is eligible and the other is not? How can we members follow that? And what's the value of T&C?
I think it's purely wrong for local deciding the eligibility, which should be the power of program service. Otherwise, a country or a hotel can just arbitrally say this promo is eligible and the other is not? How can we members follow that? And what's the value of T&C?
Currently this is the case for the heavily discounted promotional rate.
I have reported this issue to the mighty powers for more advice on this since I do not set the rules on the eligibility of such rates.
But like I have always mentioned in my posts, reservations(except award rates) booked via spg.com or CCC are eligible for stay or starpoint credits
unless otherwise stated(or mentioned in this case).
[email protected]
Thyetus Lee | Online Forum Coordinator(AP)
Starwood Customer Contact Centre (AP) Pte Ltd
I have reported this issue to the mighty powers for more advice on this since I do not set the rules on the eligibility of such rates.
But like I have always mentioned in my posts, reservations(except award rates) booked via spg.com or CCC are eligible for stay or starpoint credits
unless otherwise stated(or mentioned in this case).
[email protected]
Thyetus Lee | Online Forum Coordinator(AP)
Starwood Customer Contact Centre (AP) Pte Ltd
Jun 1, 2009, 12:48 am
#63
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Shanghai
Programs: HHonor Gold;Hyatt Diamond;SPG Platinum
Posts: 101
Currently this is the case for the heavily discounted promotional rate.
I have reported this issue to the mighty powers for more advice on this since I do not set the rules on the eligibility of such rates.
But like I have always mentioned in my posts, reservations(except award rates) booked via spg.com or CCC are eligible for stay or starpoint credits
unless otherwise stated(or mentioned in this case).
[email protected]
Thyetus Lee | Online Forum Coordinator(AP)
Starwood Customer Contact Centre (AP) Pte Ltd
I have reported this issue to the mighty powers for more advice on this since I do not set the rules on the eligibility of such rates.
But like I have always mentioned in my posts, reservations(except award rates) booked via spg.com or CCC are eligible for stay or starpoint credits
unless otherwise stated(or mentioned in this case).
[email protected]
Thyetus Lee | Online Forum Coordinator(AP)
Starwood Customer Contact Centre (AP) Pte Ltd
I just called the SPG Platinum line in China, and was also told that the rate under this promo is ineligible just because it is TOO LOW. This feedback reminds me of the past HHonor double pts/triple pts promo. The rate under HHonor double pts/triple pts promo always includes some premia, which result in a higher rate than otherwised BAR. I wish it were not the starting point for SPG to consider letting members pay extra to "BUY" the eligibility of the rate. Personally, I would still like to view this promo as an isolated case, as I perceive no such trend from SPG.
The lessons I learn from this case are that <1> not all reservations made through CCC are eligible for stay or starpoint credits; <2> I need to inquiry abou the eligibility of the rate whenever I make reservations, because the associates on the phone did not disclose the ineligibility of the rate UNTIL I asked. (what if I didn't ask?
)P.S.
I followed Jimmy's advice to file a BRG claim for a stay this weekend. Let's see what will happen.
************************************************** **************************
Follow-ups:
Initial result of BRG claim: Rejected. Disappointingly, the BRG specialist even ignored the fact that there is a promotional rate of 588CNY available.
Last edited by paranoid; Jun 1, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Jun 1, 2009, 1:38 am
#64
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Singapore
Programs: SPG
Posts: 4,002
The lessons I learn from this case are that <1> not all reservations made through CCC are eligible for stay or starpoint credits; <2> I need to inquiry abou the eligibility of the rate whenever I make reservations, because the associates on the phone did not disclose the ineligibility of the rate UNTIL I asked. (what if I didn't ask?)
)In such cases, I would strongly encourage you to contact CCS and bring this up so that it would not be repeated again.
[email protected]
Thyetus Lee | Online Forum Coordinator(AP)
Starwood Customer Contact Centre (AP) Pte Ltd
Jun 2, 2009, 12:52 am
#65
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA
Programs: SPG Lifetime PP ; Hyatt Globalist ; Nexus
Posts: 950
Any update from the mighty power? The rate is only available to book till today (6/2). I really want to know what program service has to interpret the T&C in this case. Hopefully, starwood won't have to alter T&C for this.
Currently this is the case for the heavily discounted promotional rate.
I have reported this issue to the mighty powers for more advice on this since I do not set the rules on the eligibility of such rates.
But like I have always mentioned in my posts, reservations(except award rates) booked via spg.com or CCC are eligible for stay or starpoint credits
unless otherwise stated(or mentioned in this case).
[email protected]
Thyetus Lee | Online Forum Coordinator(AP)
Starwood Customer Contact Centre (AP) Pte Ltd
I have reported this issue to the mighty powers for more advice on this since I do not set the rules on the eligibility of such rates.
But like I have always mentioned in my posts, reservations(except award rates) booked via spg.com or CCC are eligible for stay or starpoint credits
unless otherwise stated(or mentioned in this case).
[email protected]
Thyetus Lee | Online Forum Coordinator(AP)
Starwood Customer Contact Centre (AP) Pte Ltd
Jun 2, 2009, 1:12 am
#66
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Singapore
Programs: SPG
Posts: 4,002
Thank you for your concern.
Unfortunately, there is no update as yet to this issue and it would take some time before a response might be released.
My apologies for that.
[email protected]
Thyetus Lee | Online Forum Coordinator(AP)
Starwood Customer Contact Centre (AP) Pte Ltd
Jun 2, 2009, 3:22 pm
#67
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Austin, Texas
Programs: Marriott Employee Level
Posts: 31,593
update...at least as I understand it...
1) There is some concern that the T&C's of this offer do not specifically state that these rates are ineligible, so I suspect those will be amended shortly.
2) This is only bookable through the Customer Contact Center and each and every associate has been instructed to advise that the rate is not eligible before confirming it.
3) The Terms and Conditions cited previously apply insomuch as:
Eligible Charges do not include:
(a) room charges that are not included in the definition of Eligible Rates (NOTE: certain pre-paid rooms where the booking is made through a third party are not Eligible Rates)
It should be noted that the example in parentheses is just that...an example...but probably not the only ineligible rate as there may be other types of room charges/rates that are not included in Eligible Rates. In this case, since you will be told that the rate is ineligible when you call, that is sufficient notification in that you are free to then choose another rate that is eligible.
So, the powers that be have spoken and their message is that this rate is not eligible, even though it can be booked through the local Starwood Chinese Customer Contact Center.
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
2) This is only bookable through the Customer Contact Center and each and every associate has been instructed to advise that the rate is not eligible before confirming it.
3) The Terms and Conditions cited previously apply insomuch as:
Eligible Charges do not include:
(a) room charges that are not included in the definition of Eligible Rates (NOTE: certain pre-paid rooms where the booking is made through a third party are not Eligible Rates)
It should be noted that the example in parentheses is just that...an example...but probably not the only ineligible rate as there may be other types of room charges/rates that are not included in Eligible Rates. In this case, since you will be told that the rate is ineligible when you call, that is sufficient notification in that you are free to then choose another rate that is eligible.
So, the powers that be have spoken and their message is that this rate is not eligible, even though it can be booked through the local Starwood Chinese Customer Contact Center.
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
Jun 2, 2009, 3:46 pm
#68
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA
Programs: SPG Lifetime PP ; Hyatt Globalist ; Nexus
Posts: 950
William,
Allow me to point out that the definition of Eligible Rates in 4B.4. ,as I previously cited, does NOT exclude the rates "adviced by a starwood agent it's not eligible." How are we supposed to know if the agent is right or wrong when T&C doesn't say so?
What I'm trying to say is, SPG should follow its T&C when deciding the eligibility of a rate or at least go ahead and change T&C so members can follow.
Allow me to point out that the definition of Eligible Rates in 4B.4. ,as I previously cited, does NOT exclude the rates "adviced by a starwood agent it's not eligible." How are we supposed to know if the agent is right or wrong when T&C doesn't say so?
What I'm trying to say is, SPG should follow its T&C when deciding the eligibility of a rate or at least go ahead and change T&C so members can follow.
1)
Eligible Charges do not include:
(a) room charges that are not included in the definition of Eligible Rates (NOTE: certain pre-paid rooms where the booking is made through a third party are not Eligible Rates)
It should be noted that the example in parentheses is just that...an example...but probably not the only ineligible rate as there may be other types of room charges/rates that are not included in Eligible Rates.
Eligible Charges do not include:
(a) room charges that are not included in the definition of Eligible Rates (NOTE: certain pre-paid rooms where the booking is made through a third party are not Eligible Rates)
It should be noted that the example in parentheses is just that...an example...but probably not the only ineligible rate as there may be other types of room charges/rates that are not included in Eligible Rates.
Jun 2, 2009, 3:50 pm
#69
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Austin, Texas
Programs: Marriott Employee Level
Posts: 31,593
William,
Allow me to point out that the definition of Eligible Rates in 4B.4. ,as I previously cited, does NOT exclude the rates " adviced by the starwood agent that's not eligible for no reason."
What I'm trying to say is, SPG should follow its T&C when deciding the eligibility of a rate or at least go ahead and change T&C so members can follow.
Allow me to point out that the definition of Eligible Rates in 4B.4. ,as I previously cited, does NOT exclude the rates " adviced by the starwood agent that's not eligible for no reason."
What I'm trying to say is, SPG should follow its T&C when deciding the eligibility of a rate or at least go ahead and change T&C so members can follow.
1.11 All interpretations of these Terms and Conditions, and the rules of Membership, shall be at our sole discretion, and our decisions shall be final. We may waive compliance with these Terms and Conditions in our sole discretion and we may run promotions from time to time that provide enhanced benefits to select Members. Notwithstanding the foregoing, our failure to exercise any of our rights under this Agreement or our delay in enforcing or exercising any of our rights shall constitute a waiver of such rights. If we waive any right on one occasion, such waiver shall not operate as a waiver as to any other occasion.
The interpretation of the T&C's by the powers that be is that this rate is ineligible if we say it is and you are informed so you can make an informed decision. And, as far as I am concerned, that is the end of the discussion as far as Thyetus and I are concerned.
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
Jun 2, 2009, 4:01 pm
#70
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA
Programs: SPG Lifetime PP ; Hyatt Globalist ; Nexus
Posts: 950
I thank both Lurkers' help on this matter. But we all know, when a program has to cite the ultimate clause in T&C as an answer, that means that's probably not a very well planned/executed promo.
Jun 2, 2009, 9:32 pm
#71
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Shanghai
Programs: HHonor Gold;Hyatt Diamond;SPG Platinum
Posts: 101
The interpretation of the T&C's by the powers that be is that this rate is ineligible if we say it is and you are informed so you can make an informed decision. And, as far as I am concerned, that is the end of the discussion as far as Thyetus and I are concerned.
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
Let's end the discussion of this promo as you have cited the appropriate clause as above.
I have another question and wish you could help. I feel a bit more confused after receiving the e-mail from your BRG Specialist. (I filed a BRG claim against the rate in the promo.)
Dear Mr. Paranoid,
Thank you for your reply regarding your Best Rate Guarantee Claim.
Starwood guarantees that Starwood-branded websites will have the best room rate for any Starwood branded hotels ('Best Rate Guarantee'). The Starwood Best Rate Guarantee does not apply if the Competing Rate is found on a Starwood-branded Website.
The link you provided is a Starwood branded website, you can see this because the link you provided is at Starwoodhotels.com. This rate you have provided is invalid for the Best Rate Guarantee. We do not compete against our own websites or special offers. Since you found the offer on our websites, we can not compare this for the Best Rate Guarantee.
Best Rate Guarantees applies to third party websites such as Priceline.com, Hotels.com, and Expedia.com.
I apologize for the inconvenience, I am unable to approve your claim.
You may contact the hotel directly to book this rate.
For complete program details, please refer to the terms and conditions of the Best Rate Guarantee program.
Your interest in our Best Rate Guarantee is appreciated and we welcome any claims you may submit in the future. The Best Rate Guarantee form is located here.
Best Regards,
Best Rate Guarantee Specialist
E-Communications Department
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
Is this logically wrong with the bold parts? And I go through the T&C of BRG again, could not find any parts of T&C stating that the rate found on Starwood-branded websites is an ineligible rate for the Competing rate and so the BRG could not apply.
What's more, we do find the CCC on the list of the sources for the Competing rate when we fill in the BRG claim form. If it is not an eligible source, why list it as a choice?
So, could I understand the whoe issue in this way:
<1> the eligibility of the rate is at the sole disretion of Starwood per the ultimate clause of T&C;
<2> the Starwood-branded websites always offer the lowest rate available, but unfortunately, the lowest rate found on Starwood-branded website may not be an eligible rate for stay or starpoints credits;
<3> when the rate found on Starwood-branded websites is ineligible for stay or starpoints credits, there should be an explicit clause in T&C stating this(and the associates on the phone should inform the members to help members make an INFORMED decision)
<4> when the ineligibility of the rate is NOT disclosed in the T&C(as in this promo) or the associates on the phone FAIL to inform the members, the ultimate clause of T&C apply. (Loop back to <1>)
Back to the BRG issue, Starwood does not violate the BRG because the lowest rate(under the promo) is found on the Starwood-branded website(but unfortunately powers regard it as an ineligible rate)? ??
Jun 2, 2009, 10:24 pm
#72
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA
Programs: SPG Lifetime PP ; Hyatt Globalist ; Nexus
Posts: 950
^ paranoid, you are absoultely right about that! My friend, who also filed BRG, also got denied but for a different reason. The rate is considered private b/c it's only offered via China call center. I wonder whether a rate is also ineligible if only offered in US.
I think whoever designed that promo is simply too lame. Has Starwood ever had an ineligible rate in a promo ever? Is that sort of discriminatioin to Chinese?
I think whoever designed that promo is simply too lame. Has Starwood ever had an ineligible rate in a promo ever? Is that sort of discriminatioin to Chinese?
Jun 3, 2009, 10:00 am
#73
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Austin, Texas
Programs: Marriott Employee Level
Posts: 31,593
Hi William,
Let's end the discussion of this promo as you have cited the appropriate clause as above.
I have another question and wish you could help. I feel a bit more confused after receiving the e-mail from your BRG Specialist. (I filed a BRG claim against the rate in the promo.)
Dear Mr. Paranoid,
Thank you for your reply regarding your Best Rate Guarantee Claim.
Starwood guarantees that Starwood-branded websites will have the best room rate for any Starwood branded hotels ('Best Rate Guarantee'). The Starwood Best Rate Guarantee does not apply if the Competing Rate is found on a Starwood-branded Website.
The link you provided is a Starwood branded website, you can see this because the link you provided is at Starwoodhotels.com. This rate you have provided is invalid for the Best Rate Guarantee. We do not compete against our own websites or special offers. Since you found the offer on our websites, we can not compare this for the Best Rate Guarantee.
Best Rate Guarantees applies to third party websites such as Priceline.com, Hotels.com, and Expedia.com.
I apologize for the inconvenience, I am unable to approve your claim.
You may contact the hotel directly to book this rate.
For complete program details, please refer to the terms and conditions of the Best Rate Guarantee program.
Your interest in our Best Rate Guarantee is appreciated and we welcome any claims you may submit in the future. The Best Rate Guarantee form is located here.
Best Regards,
Best Rate Guarantee Specialist
E-Communications Department
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
Is this logically wrong with the bold parts? And I go through the T&C of BRG again, could not find any parts of T&C stating that the rate found on Starwood-branded websites is an ineligible rate for the Competing rate and so the BRG could not apply.
What's more, we do find the CCC on the list of the sources for the Competing rate when we fill in the BRG claim form. If it is not an eligible source, why list it as a choice?
So, could I understand the whoe issue in this way:
<1> the eligibility of the rate is at the sole disretion of Starwood per the ultimate clause of T&C;
<2> the Starwood-branded websites always offer the lowest rate available, but unfortunately, the lowest rate found on Starwood-branded website may not be an eligible rate for stay or starpoints credits;
<3> when the rate found on Starwood-branded websites is ineligible for stay or starpoints credits, there should be an explicit clause in T&C stating this(and the associates on the phone should inform the members to help members make an INFORMED decision)
<4> when the ineligibility of the rate is NOT disclosed in the T&C(as in this promo) or the associates on the phone FAIL to inform the members, the ultimate clause of T&C apply. (Loop back to <1>)
Back to the BRG issue, Starwood does not violate the BRG because the lowest rate(under the promo) is found on the Starwood-branded website(but unfortunately powers regard it as an ineligible rate)? ??
Let's end the discussion of this promo as you have cited the appropriate clause as above.
I have another question and wish you could help. I feel a bit more confused after receiving the e-mail from your BRG Specialist. (I filed a BRG claim against the rate in the promo.)
Dear Mr. Paranoid,
Thank you for your reply regarding your Best Rate Guarantee Claim.
Starwood guarantees that Starwood-branded websites will have the best room rate for any Starwood branded hotels ('Best Rate Guarantee'). The Starwood Best Rate Guarantee does not apply if the Competing Rate is found on a Starwood-branded Website.
The link you provided is a Starwood branded website, you can see this because the link you provided is at Starwoodhotels.com. This rate you have provided is invalid for the Best Rate Guarantee. We do not compete against our own websites or special offers. Since you found the offer on our websites, we can not compare this for the Best Rate Guarantee.
Best Rate Guarantees applies to third party websites such as Priceline.com, Hotels.com, and Expedia.com.
I apologize for the inconvenience, I am unable to approve your claim.
You may contact the hotel directly to book this rate.
For complete program details, please refer to the terms and conditions of the Best Rate Guarantee program.
Your interest in our Best Rate Guarantee is appreciated and we welcome any claims you may submit in the future. The Best Rate Guarantee form is located here.
Best Regards,
Best Rate Guarantee Specialist
E-Communications Department
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
Is this logically wrong with the bold parts? And I go through the T&C of BRG again, could not find any parts of T&C stating that the rate found on Starwood-branded websites is an ineligible rate for the Competing rate and so the BRG could not apply.
What's more, we do find the CCC on the list of the sources for the Competing rate when we fill in the BRG claim form. If it is not an eligible source, why list it as a choice?
So, could I understand the whoe issue in this way:
<1> the eligibility of the rate is at the sole disretion of Starwood per the ultimate clause of T&C;
<2> the Starwood-branded websites always offer the lowest rate available, but unfortunately, the lowest rate found on Starwood-branded website may not be an eligible rate for stay or starpoints credits;
<3> when the rate found on Starwood-branded websites is ineligible for stay or starpoints credits, there should be an explicit clause in T&C stating this(and the associates on the phone should inform the members to help members make an INFORMED decision)
<4> when the ineligibility of the rate is NOT disclosed in the T&C(as in this promo) or the associates on the phone FAIL to inform the members, the ultimate clause of T&C apply. (Loop back to <1>)
Back to the BRG issue, Starwood does not violate the BRG because the lowest rate(under the promo) is found on the Starwood-branded website(but unfortunately powers regard it as an ineligible rate)? ??
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
Jul 5, 2009, 8:31 pm
#74
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, United Global Services/1MM
Posts: 630
SPG points and hotels.com
Hi All-
Sorry in advance if this has been answered somewhere, but I couldn't find it.
I'm new to the SPG world (free weekend nights has sucked me in....).
Mrs. Bostonpilot booked a night at the BWI Westin via hotels dot com and my question is can she earn SPG points in that case? I know that doesn't work in the Hhonors world, but curious with SPG.
Thanks!
Sorry in advance if this has been answered somewhere, but I couldn't find it.
I'm new to the SPG world (free weekend nights has sucked me in....).
Mrs. Bostonpilot booked a night at the BWI Westin via hotels dot com and my question is can she earn SPG points in that case? I know that doesn't work in the Hhonors world, but curious with SPG.
Thanks!
Last edited by SanDiego1K; Jul 5, 2009 at 10:02 pm Reason: Moved into master thread; thanks aussiechris