Points-Obsessed Travelers Are Terrified of Losing Perks
 

Interesting article in Bloomberg about the merger

A few excerpts:

Starwood fans fear Marriott mediocrity in the world's largest hospitality merger.

The success of the megamerger still depends on winning over a group of customers who’ve always viewed Marriott members as dupes. Edward Pizzarello, a venture capitalist who spends 100 nights a year in Starwood hotels, puts it this way: “They had Stockholm syndrome.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...am-to-the-test

Posted an hour earlier in another thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30036314-post146.html

Paging Ed Pizzarello... are you on FT? :D

Did a quick search and didn't see it


Thanks !

He used to be. Pizzaman. I believe he spends his time on the other website now.

As for objective info, the Bloomberg article mentions a total of 21 million SPG accounts at time of acquisition.

Uhhh, no.

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No? Outside of using it at MR properties, can I ask why would someone spend anything on it? If you read through the last 2 months of posts in the other thread, lots of people are making it a "sock drawer" card, keeping it for hotel spending and the free night only.

I will be sock drawer-ing mine for the most part. It may still get some incidental use, but the emphasis is going to be on "incidental"... I'm honestly torn about even using it at Starriott properties. It's something of a toss-up between that or the CSR card I have, but at least there I'm effectively getting a solid two airline miles per dollar spent plus the bonus for large block transfers and getting a broader selection of airlines than Chase has. It is a tough call, but there is some value in the diversity.

This calculation is also why I will probably just pass on the new Hyatt card in the long run... I really don't see much value in that new card either, and spending an extra 20 bucks for the same hotel night is just silly... not to mention hardly worth it for 2000 points when I can just shoot the existing card and get a new one. There are almost no cases where I feel like I come out ahead on that card.

Actually one of the better and correctly written articles I have seen on our little obsession! Count me in the SPG camp of "I just don't trust Marriott" SPG loyalists.

I didn't literally mean $0. No sure why it was necessary to insult me with that link.

If you're not switching to only putting MR/SPG/Ritz spending on this card, I'm asking why. There are lots of others who are going to $0 everyday spending on this card:

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...uation-13.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...thread-87.html

Unfortunately, there isn't a bright future in being an SPG loyalist. That ship has sailed.

Regards

I plan to continue to use my SPG Amex albeit at a much-reduced rate.

I will use the Chase Sapphire Reserve for:

• Travel expenses (except Marriott/Starwood stays and Vistana maintenance fee payments)
• Dining expenses
• Global Entry renewal for myself and TSA Pre✔® renewal for Mrs. controller1

I will use the SPG Amex for:

• Marriott/Starwood stays
• Vistana maintenance fee payments
• All other everyday usage

The following assumptions cause me to do this:

• Chase UR is valued at $0.017 per point
• Marriott point is valued at $0.008 per point
• Marriott continues to have a much more robust list of airline transfer partners than does Chase
• Marriott points, as are SPG Starpoints today, will continue to be more valuable to me as I will only use them when I can get $0.01/point value when making award reservations. Today I regularly receive the equivalent of $0.012 - $0.017 per Marriott point when making award reservations.

We don't have Vistana but our planned usage looks a lot like yours for the same reasons. One major difference. My husband will be switching from the SPG (Marriott) Amex that he charged almost everything on (both business and personal) to try the new Amex Blue Business plus with 2x MR points on everything up to $50,000 per calendar year. That's about 3.8 cents per dollar on a no annual fee card. Aside from earning almost 4 cents per dollar, we need to switch him up since for all of these years we have been transferring his Starwood points to my account monthly and now with the new Marriott rules that will be limited.

Based on your own valuation, you would be significantly better off getting a Chase Freedom Unlimited card for everyday usage!

MR $1 spend = 2 x $0.008 = $0.016
UR $1 spend = 1.5 x $0.017 = $0.0255

I can see you putting the other spend on the SPG AMEX but there really are much better options for everyday spend. Freedom Unlimited or even the AMEX EDP will return more IMHO.

I guess it isn't going to be consoilidated to where it was first posted, so...


Anyone call themselves SPG'ers? Or as a LT PLT/mulit-year PLT/100, maybe I'm not among the "most loyal travelers". :rolleyes:

And if you're "terrified" over FF program perks, you need to step back and re-assess, IMHO.

Sorry. I didn't mean to turn this into a card usage thread.

My original question was about the revenue Amex gets from the SPG card. Part of the answer is shown below. I had read it's second behind the Amex DL cards, but I guess it's still not much of the business.

If you are New Plat (50+ nights per year, or 35 after credit card night credits) you get 4pm late checkout. It's Golds at the 25 night level that were downgraded to 2pm maybe-allowable.

Haha The SPGer comment was one of the only really lame things in the article (the type of silly misinformation most of these types of articles tend to include)

And terrified is hyperbolical but anytime something one works years to attain is threatened it does cause some worries. (Plus Clickbait :)

The 2 PM late checkout (subject to availability) is not only a downgrade for SPG Gold; the 4 PM late checkout was also a benefit for SPG Preferred Plus. Marriott needs to win over legacy SPG Gold and Preferred Plus members too.

Good article.

Yeah...I was an SPG Gold and I occasionally took advantage of the 4PM checkout when I had a badly-timed flight/a "dead day" on the end of a trip. I'd also point out the de facto devaluation of the amenity benefit as well (since it's being given with watered-down points).

Ultimately, the card is still going to be worth the free night (I figure I can get at least $100-125 out of that even if I'm "throwing away" the night in question) but with the lift in status demands? Trying for status at Stariott isn't going to be really "worth it".

Yeah...I was an SPG Gold and I occasionally took advantage of the 4PM checkout when I had a badly-timed flight/a "dead day" on the end of a trip. I'd also point out the de facto devaluation of the amenity benefit as well (since it's being given with watered-down points).

Ultimately, the card is still going to be worth the free night (I figure I can get at least $100-125 out of that even if I'm "throwing away" the night in question) but with the lift in status demands? Trying for status at Stariott isn't going to be really "worth it".

Personally, I'm putting away the personal SPG for everyday spend. Still keeping my business cards for now for the bonus categories.

In the past, we used our points only for Starwood hotel stays, since we loved the properties and the redemption value was excellent. First stay was at the Westin St. John during our honeymoon, so Starwood has a real place in our heart.

Now, I'm rethinking the use of points for hotel stays in general.

Since we had kids, we used to stay at Walt Disney Dolphin every 18 months or so. Used to have to spend $10,000 for a free night. Now I have to spend $25,000 (at 2 points per dollar) for the same $250 room. I get better return on my Chaser Sapphire Reserve to book airfare through the online travel portal. Super easy, no blackouts, and I still earn airline miles.

A bit depressed about the whole affair but it has definitely expanded my horizons.

As someone who does no business travel anymore, the SPG demise has caused me to re-assess my point gathering plans. Since I am pretty much a credit card focused person, I always look at ratio of CC dollar spent to get a hotel night reward. Over the years had settled on Starwood based on the availability of decent, large city redemptions in the 12-16K point range. Now... I don't know. My plan for now is to let all my cards lapse except for CSR and CIti Double cash, and then reassess later when I can get bonus points for re-upping if necessary.

So as it relates to this thread, the impact of the changes to me will be to push me away for a while, with the possibility of return next year. I am probably not their target market anyway though, so maybe this was part of their plan.

Not a CC user but like everyone else the check out change is beyond annoying for us that are SPG Platinum but my ..... is around the change in earning stays.
I usually earn SPG platinum through stays and not total nights so the move to nights only with Marriott will be the factor for me moving most of my business around Hilton Diamond.
After hitting lifetime Gold this year my business will drop although I do like how Marriott tracks lifetime stays for credit though.

I don't know about 'obsession' but it's clear to me that Marriott will quickly dumb-down the once "special" program that was SPG. Just this morning I called to cancel my SPG AMEX (after 17 years). Why? Because I'm LT Plat (or was ) at SPG, I used to get 1 point for every dollar (going to 2 - a 33% reduction) and it just isn't worth it anymore. Nothing is sacred, nothing is special. Marriott wants to get over this speed-bump with the SPG members and in six months it won't matter anyway. They are lousy at posting points and they are diminishing the loyalty (which was well-deserved) of the SPG members in the process. They may not care- they are the winners in the purchase, but there are other hotel chains out there and for the first time in 20 years, I'm shopping around. I hated Marriott before they bought Starwood for a variety of reasons and those reasons still exist. They are cheap.

I usually stay above 90 nights/year. However, some of the nights come from multi room night credit. Without that feature, the count will drop to around 60-70. Still can reach platinum at the new program.

Since I cant get SPG/Marriott co branded card, the earning reduction wont affect me at all.

The only possible concern I can think will be:
1. Since there will be another distinct tier above plt (plt premier at 75 and above) would it means for plts, they will be put into lower priority in terms of upgrade?

2. The loss of multi room nights credit. Without that feature, I might shift the excess stays to different chain. I feel its pointless to do matress run for more than 5 nights/ year.
At 95nights, I will be definitely tempted to gain extra 5 nights for plt premier with ambassador. But at 60 nights, doing extra 15 nights for plt premier is not that appealing to me. Might as well try other hotel for those 10 nights above 50.

Personally, I wont be worry too much about the merge. Most likely will continue staying at Starriotts hotels and keep looking for better programs with footprint that I require

Personally, I hope so :) At legacy Marriott properties using Marsha, the hotel can see the guest is a Plat Premier. Not every hotel does, but many prioritize upgrades for Plat Premiers. Unfortunately, that number will be at least tripling :( At legacy Starwood properties using Lightspeed, however, its a bit unclear. As I understand, a Starwood property wouldn't know if you're a plat with 100 nights or one with 25 one night stays so the Starwood's best customers would be in the same priority as those with 25 one night stays. Of course, all hotels have the ability to recognize repeat guests, meeting organizers, etc., It's unclear if they are going to change the Lightspeed system to recognize Plat Premiers but I hope so.


And ... the title of the article is a bit inconsistent ... points obsessed seeems different than perks obsessed.

Of course, some of us like both :)

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Consolidation in any industry is rarely if ever good for the consumer

I think what matters more is how many suites are available and for what dates and if that matches up with how many days you are planning to be there. Also history with the hotel and who you know will have more impact than which tier of Plat you are.

The party is over, it was fun while it lasted.

FWIW my SPG AMEX is lost somewhere...thats about how much I use that card. I think I've only put maybe 4 transactions on it in the past 2 years.

Switched over to Fine Hotels & Resorts program through amex platinum.