Reflections pt1: Looking at Marriott Rewards – SPG Lifetime Plat perspective
Jun 19, 2018, 6:40 pm
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
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Every company wants their marketing efforts to drive an emotional attachment which can be monetized. Starwood succeeded in doing so whereas Marriott did not. In order to actually understand why SPG elites are so attached to SPG it is important to acknowledge that SPG fostered a culture that created that emotional connection. It worked. It is the reason it pains so many to see “Marriott’s W hotel opening in Brisbane” or hear that a new GM of a Sheraton came from Marriott. We know that these employees were not trained with the same mindset and may not understand what we have become accustomed to in the SPG culture. Without this basic understanding as a part of discussions, they are just as uninformed as not having the numbers.
Even though they are sadly protected as an oligopoly, it's part of the reason why airlines like UA and AA have lost the emotional connection (and reason to spend the marginal dollar) with many flyers. They had to try harder (prior to the mergers) and make flyers do irrational things, like take less desirable / more expensive routings in the name of loyalty, which they had a great run at doing for a long time.
Jun 20, 2018, 5:02 am
#47
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: WAW
Programs: A3(*G), Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 2,534
I guess you'd call that good marketing.
Jun 20, 2018, 6:18 am
#48
Join Date: Aug 2016
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, A3 Gold, M&M Senator
Posts: 121
Very smart. And I'm not sure why Marriott is doing away with this benefit.
This was a big benefit for me. It kept me loyal to SPG properties even when a Hyatt or Marriott property made more sense. I often volunteered to book travel for my department when we traveled with together. And you can bet I bent over backwards to book us in the Sheraton--even if the Hyatt Place or Courtyard were cheaper and more conveniently located. I knew that our three night stay would become a nine night stay, and assist me in qualifying for elite status (whose benefits I really take advantage of during personal travel), so it was worth it to me to take my group a little bit out of their way to stay at the SPG property.
As far as loyalty programs go, this benefit does exactly what the OP was talking about: encouraging profitable behavior in the customer.
Marriott...are you listening?
This was a big benefit for me. It kept me loyal to SPG properties even when a Hyatt or Marriott property made more sense. I often volunteered to book travel for my department when we traveled with together. And you can bet I bent over backwards to book us in the Sheraton--even if the Hyatt Place or Courtyard were cheaper and more conveniently located. I knew that our three night stay would become a nine night stay, and assist me in qualifying for elite status (whose benefits I really take advantage of during personal travel), so it was worth it to me to take my group a little bit out of their way to stay at the SPG property.
As far as loyalty programs go, this benefit does exactly what the OP was talking about: encouraging profitable behavior in the customer.
Marriott...are you listening?
Jun 20, 2018, 7:03 am
#49
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LCY
Programs: SQ Krisflyer, QR Privilege Club, MB LT Plt (1K+ nights thx MB)
Posts: 1,038
Jun 20, 2018, 7:24 am
#50
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,575
Every company wants their marketing efforts to drive an emotional attachment which can be monetized. Starwood succeeded in doing so whereas Marriott did not. In order to actually understand why SPG elites are so attached to SPG it is important to acknowledge that SPG fostered a culture that created that emotional connection. It worked. It is the reason it pains so many to see “Marriott’s W hotel opening in Brisbane” or hear that a new GM of a Sheraton came from Marriott. We know that these employees were not trained with the same mindset and may not understand what we have become accustomed to in the SPG culture. Without this basic understanding as a part of discussions, they are just as uninformed as not having the numbers.
I used to always think of Marriott's training of front-line staff as exceptional - they were consistent and typically made things right. My comparison at the time was Hilton, where everything was wildly inconsistent. These days I don't notice as much difference across the board - except, of course, at a really good Starwood...
Jun 20, 2018, 7:28 am
#51
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 110
Jun 20, 2018, 7:40 am
#52
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,413
100% agree with this. Worst benefit ever offered by SPG. My SNA's never clear. I had one situation where my SNA cleared on a one night stay at Westin Buckhead, but then got a call from the manager of the property telling me they had to reverse it due to reaching occupancy levels. They told me the SNA would apply back to my account, but it never did. Never even bothered to let my ambassador know, just thought it was pretty ironic the only way I could actually use a SNA was having it clear then getting it taken away again.
You should have reported this at the time.
Jun 20, 2018, 10:35 am
#53
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the air
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy LT Plat, Hilton Gold, GHA Tit, BA Gold, Turkish Elite
Posts: 8,720
Clearly people have differing experiences with SNAs, but as quite a few other people I've scored 20-30 nights of $500 - $3,000 dollar upgrades and so find it difficult to avoid disagreeing with people who see 10 SNAs as clearly worse than a $100 night in a Cat 5 hotel.
Jun 20, 2018, 11:48 am
#54
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,575
In my SPG Plat years (pre-SNA), I always had a good suite upgrade rate. I would have thought that in the SNA era, the pure comp upgrade rate would drop but the SNA hit rate would still be pretty good.
Jun 21, 2018, 2:04 am
#55
formerly fdemoulin
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Programs: SPG Lifetime Platinum, BA Silver, Virgin Flying Club Red
Posts: 916
i rarely qualify for SNAs but have a pretty good suite upgrade recorde (around 90%) but then again do not travel to US or at national vacation times. All my stays are paid cash often with BRG but the cash vs points may play a parry in upgrades
Jun 21, 2018, 5:55 am
#56
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,171
YMMV - I basically have only ever used mine on points stays (occasional C&P) and have great clearance success
Jun 21, 2018, 6:51 am
#57
Join Date: Feb 2016
Programs: DL DM, SPG Plat 100/LT Gold, Marriott Plat, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,988
Clearly people have differing experiences with SNAs, but as quite a few other people I've scored 20-30 nights of $500 - $3,000 dollar upgrades and so find it difficult to avoid disagreeing with people who see 10 SNAs as clearly worse than a $100 night in a Cat 5 hotel.
For example I stayed at The Gritti Palace. Applied SNA to a higher than base level points room as that's all that was available at the time. SNA cleared to as Sestiere Suite.
Then later that day a standard room became available. Wanting to conserve my points, asked my Ambassador if the difference could be returned but keep my SNA. She said no, but said it's likely the suite would be returned to inventory and I could reapply SNA again immediately.
The suite did return to inventory after the cancellation; rebooked standard room using less points, applied SNA...and boom, it never cleared (despite at least 1 Sestiere Suite still being available).
Ambassador made UG request directly to the hotel; they were extremely full and offered either a Patron Suite or the Terrazza Redentore (both much higher categories than the Sestiere)...
This is why I call SNAs worthless. The only time I've stayed in a hotel without a suite upgrade this year was at an Aloft without suites...and I didn't pick or apply any SNAs...much better ways to ensure suite upgrades than the SNA process...
Jun 21, 2018, 8:12 am
#58
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CLT
Programs: Marriott Plat, AA Gold
Posts: 1,076
If I could add one sentiment that our Lurker could bring back to the powers that be. That is equal treatment of legacy SPG and MR accounts. As an example; The number of # years as elite for legacy SPG accounts are given by the SPG dashboard that is all good, however if the functionality to obtain number of # years as elite for legacy MR accounts are to be more lenient with respect to gifted status etc the same should apply for SPG accounts. The same rules should apply for legacy SPG accounts or legacy MR accounts. I am agnostic to which rules prevails but it should be the same. It would be logical to let the SPG rule be the guide or maybe how the new program define a qualifying elite year.
Other comments on the OP:
I think it’s fair to say the 10 nights for meetings is a “loophole,” at least in regards to no-show meetings. But as mentioned there aren’t many people that actually do this.
But the 15 credit card nights is not a loophole. That is an advantage to holding the credit card. I don’t see how one can make this argument when the SPG card gave some night/stay credit as well. The 15 nights for the MR card is likely the reason some held that one and not the SPG card which earned more points. This has clearly been defined as continuing in the new program so obviously Starriott does not view it as a loophole either.
As mentioned, rollover nights had already ended.
Edit: I believe the people talking about transferring points out and then back in in some form have been cautioned that this could result in getting their accounts shut down.
Last edited by GoPhils; Jun 21, 2018 at 9:17 am
Jun 21, 2018, 8:35 am
#59
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LCY
Programs: SQ Krisflyer, QR Privilege Club, MB LT Plt (1K+ nights thx MB)
Posts: 1,038
No, this is in reference to the fact that a valid SPG elite year can only be years when you hit 50 nights, as an example comped status like if you where close to hitting 50 nights and SPG bumped you to PLT does not count towards your LT platinum year count. In MR this was not an uncommon practice, in many cases to avoid award a substantial amount of roll-over nights. Now if MAR decide to count the MR legacy years and allow for instance comped status levels to add towards the MPG PLT years, I think that it make sense to do these adjustments for the SPG accounts as well to keep legacy MR and legacy SPG accounts on an equal footing.
Jun 21, 2018, 8:59 am
#60
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CLT
Programs: Marriott Plat, AA Gold
Posts: 1,076
No, this is in reference to the fact that a valid SPG elite year can only be years when you hit 50 nights, as an example comped status like if you where close to hitting 50 nights and SPG bumped you to PLT does not count towards your LT platinum year count. In MR this was not an uncommon practice, in many cases to avoid award a substantial amount of roll-over nights. Now if MAR decide to count the MR legacy years and allow for instance comped status levels to add towards the MPG PLT years, I think that it make sense to do these adjustments for the SPG accounts as well to keep legacy MR and legacy SPG accounts on an equal footing.
I believe this comped status was more commonly for those at the old Platinum level, so these people likely would have legitimately qualified for Gold anyway, which would still count as a year of Plat in the new program thus making this argument mostly moot. Of course there were also soft landings, but I believe SPG did that as well.
Side note, I think it's funny that this is being used as an argument against MR, when some would argue that something like this does in fact show that MR actually cares about loyalty, and is willing to give some people a break if they missed a status by a few nights (but typically had history of making it in the past).
Edit: You are also incorrect on your interpretation of rollover nights. Rollover nights were only earned on nights over and above your current status. So a person that was Platinum, then Gold with 74 nights the following year would get 0 rollover nights.
Last edited by GoPhils; Jun 21, 2018 at 9:05 am