stc

Is this documented somewhere?

GoSh4rks

The new card doesn't offer it. Check the benefits. It is still present on the now-unobtainable old card.

stc

OK, then I really don't care. #NotMyProblem The other changes (roll-over nights, etc.) will affect me, but this one won't. Of course, after this year, I should be Lifetime Platinum Pro and very little will matter except for getting SNAs.

yeunganson

I'll comment on some of this.SPG Platinum went through a reform as entering the decade of 2010s. So Platinum has added benifits as you stay more nights. Suite Night Awards added for 50 nights. Your 24 + extra points at 75 nights. Ambassador at 100 nights. Although they are in name all Platinum, in spirit, these are "shades" to seperate the super freqent guests and the frequent guests. Those who qualify for through only 25 stays (without the 50 nights) are teasingly refered here as "Plat lite". Our program is solid enough that even these "Plat lite" members find upgrades in frequency that continue to delivery pleasent surprises. If we had a lot of free-loaders, I bet the overall Platinum experience would have gone downhill and SPG Plat members would complain say their "experience" was not as good as it was 5, 8, 10 years ago (like those members in United or Air Canada airlines). This is not the case here. In fact, we all agree there was enhancements in 2010s that made the program more generious than before (ambassador, Your24, SuiteNight Awards, Extra points)

For Marriott members that are true to spirt of the Marriott program of 750 nights and 2 million points.... In our SPG perspective, if you drag the 750 nights over 10 years, that would mean 75 nights per year on average. My question is how can you not qualify for a 50 night Marriott elite status in most of those 10 years? If you're not a frequent guest and plan to get lifetime through.... 25 years (on average 30 nights per year)... that I can understand how you fall through the cracks, but how common are those types? Why would one want Frequent Guest status when you're not a frequent guest? For 2 million points, if you drag it out through 10, 15 years, they are not as daughting as it at first seems. I am very confident those SPG members that are Platinum over 10 years will not find the 2Million Marriott points (666,666 SPG points) earnings as particulary challenging. In fact, I will argue breaching the 2 million Marriot Point equivalent threashold gets easier for each additional year above 10. My point is Years + Night is a more strict tool than Night + Points because there is no churning nor tricks when it comes to time - it goes just as slowly for you and me.

yeunganson

Spending requirement not an elegant solution - it's blut and most importantly very effective. The goal is to block free-loaders from gaming status so lessen the distortion.
Your disatsifaction of the SNA is a different issue. We would like enhancements of those SNA to act like Guarentee Upgrade Certs - but you can only do that if those SNA are rare, limited in quantity and not that many elites have them.

United and Air Canada put in these spending threasholds and got addicted to the profits without the program enhacements. So the key here is you put in the spending requirement AND enhance the benifits of those that qualify.

swag

As a consultant, my stay pattern is pretty lumpy. I've had years with out of town clients with periods of 50-100% travel, and ~140+ nights in those years. And I've had years with local clients with only a few personal nights to earn.

And that's also why lifetime status matters. If you're staying 50+ nights every year, you have status every year. But since my stays are uneven, I've found myself down to Silver status when suddenly a new client means increased travel, and dozens of nights to stay before getting the 50 night status back.

UA-NYC

Good point...but is it going to remain in 2019 and onward?

Highly disagree - my 7 nights of suites at a Spanish StR, Westin, and LC a few weeks back were quite lovely. They haven't cleared 100% of the time but I've also never had one expire. YMMV.

CJKatl

Why is there supposed to be a strict test for a marketing tool status? What difference does it make if others qualified in a way the company thought was worthy of the status? Who cares how others qualified?

pinniped

Seems like the OP is overly concerned about how other people achieve status.

Most of the things he highlights as "loopholes" aren't - they're specifically-marketed things that Marriott is using to drive business. They've sent me emails all about Rewarding Events, sometimes with promotions beyond the 10 EQN. (I booked one small event at a Marriott about 10 years ago, so I'm probably on a list.) If this encourages people to book meetings, so be it. The 15 EQN for the CC was purposeful - a way to differentiate their card without outright comping Gold like the Hilton cards were doing at the time. The ability to pool points at Marriott is looser than SPG in some ways (no need for shared residency) and tighter in others (capped at 50k with a once-per-year exception if you are redeeming an award).

My experience with SPG has been the opposite of the OP's: it's long been a chain that has rewarded me greatly even though I've done very few revenue stays there. My SPG total night count right now is 110. Yet I've earned probably half a million points over the years and have redeemed tons of great 5-night stays all over the world. I've done most of them as a Gold, a few as a Plat (I had a couple years where some mattress-running to 23 revenue stays was done), but SPG has always had the absolute best credit card in the industry, which is where all of my points came from.

Marriott, by contrast, has always required butt-in-beds to earn points needed to reach the award that their whole program is built upon: the 7-night Travel Package with 120k FF miles. The only reason that is slightly different now is because of the SPG Amex. All of the Marriott credit cards are incredibly weak for non-Marriott spending. Marriott was for *many* years extremely tight on Gold/Plat comps and challenges, although they've loosened to about what Starwood does in recent years. They've never given away high tiers the way Hilton or IHG do. Even in the new program, they'll protect PP and PP+A pretty well. United Golds will probably get "new" Plat.

They're different programs; I've enjoyed them both. But aside from the IT glitch (which I'm only vaguely aware of), I don't think Marriott has any more or fewer exploitable loopholes than Starwood does or did.

yeunganson

This disagreement isn't about what is technically possible. I am arguing the "spirt of the law". The original designer of the program did not intend for unexpected uses like 1hr meetings for 10 eligible nights. I blame Marriott for not fixing this problem to better reflect the Rewarding Meetings program's original intent.

The Marriott members using this 1hr meeting for 10 nights also have an element of deceit as I read through that thread. If it was a legit use of the program like our Spg credit for 3 rooms, Marriott members would have proudly told the hotel manager one's here for a no-show meeting just for 10 nights to make it to the next status.

This is not the case of what I read on the Marriott forum. People are hush hush on which hotels does it. When one member willing to release the name of a hotel, it was commented that this was killing the goose which lay the golden egg (and that member was bombarded with requests). All of this doesn't sound like people using what the program was intended to do.

CJKatl

Who is the original designer of the program? When did he/she state this? Given the program is a marketing tool, if the meeting nights directly or indirectly drove business one would think the program's designer would be in favor of giving credit, as would the people presently running the program, which would seem obvious from the fact they do give credit.

People contact the hotel ahead of time to make sure it is okay not to show up because they do not want to spend the money if they do not get the nights. That is hardly keeping the no-show a secret. And the hotel is well aware the people do not show up. That is not a secret, either. Nobody asks for the room to be unlocked and nobody is there when the hotel staff checks in and no furniture has been moved. It is the same when someone pays for two extra rooms to get the credits; the hotel knows nobody stayed in the two extra rooms. I would not do it, others do, it is allowed by the rules so how is it my concern?

I have never done a no-show meeting but have done real meetings a few times, but if it is allowed by the rules than what business is it of mine if others do what is allowed? As long as I get me LTP benefits, primarily lounge access, why should I care about anyone else? It is not as though I am going to brag about my hotel marketing program status, nor does it make me feel special or better than others, so why would I care about how someone else made status?

yeunganson

An analogy I can come up with is this one... We all line up to board a plane but culturally accept allow those that are temporarily or permanently physically challenged (those with broken leg, wheelchair bound) to board first. Then you see a few passengers with a few paper cuts on their knee (and able to walk) use the wheelchair to board first. Yes it's allowed by the airlines because these people are technically injured by having paper cuts on the knee. We know the intention of this policy was really intended for those needing of wheelchair and broken legs. Although we all ended up on the same plane and we all fly to our destination successfully, most people will still find something wrong and unjust in this scenario and would like the airlines to enforce that you need to be culturally acceptably "not walkable" state (like at least the severity of twisted anckle or deep cut or something) before you can be wheeled into the plane before anyone else boards.

I have no problem with those booking weddings, corporate luncheon, semnars..etc I believe the 1 hour meetings for 10 eligible nights was not the intended use of the program.

pinniped

That analogy makes no sense.

Marriott has a promotion that includes 10 EQN for a meeting. The vast majority of meetings booked at Marriotts are *not* $100 one-hour meetings. The promotion is likely sent to all MR members periodically and to meeting planners more often. (I booked 1 meeting at a Marriott ten years ago and I sometimes get promos that look a little more tailored to meeting planners. I suspect I'm on a list.)

But...the hotel is *also* perfectly happy if someone books a short meeting in a small room. They make money off of that. There's probably some algorithm that tells them whether they would be likely to rent that room for an entire day, so by the time they're letting someone book it for an hour, it's $100 for a room that would have otherwise been empty. The short-meeting-booker isn't affecting anyone else. The probability of *that* person getting the last suite upgrade years in the future on the same day you were checking in as a "real" Plat are so infinitesimal that they aren't even worth discussing.

If someone books eight meetings for $800 to get Platinum status, they probably get laughed at by the hotel - but the hotel is happy to take the $800. I've been MR Plat for a few years and never found it to be worth that much. There are not thousands of people out there doing this - it's a pretty niche Flyertalk thing, even more niche than mattress running or CC churning or other standard tricks. There are literally tens of people doing this worldwide, compared to millions of Marriott/Starwood elite members.

The number of people booking more lucrative meetings, with catering and room-nights, etc. is far far higher. They're getting *most* of the 10 EQN bonuses, along with bonus points for their spend. (In the case of my one event, I also got some bonus points and the Presidential Suite confirmed in advance.)

somedude3210

I considered the up to three nights/stay credits to be a feature of SPG that was a competitive advantage. If the program is to build loyalty, drive spend, and ultimately fill rooms, the 3x feature definitely provided incentive to book family trips at Starwood properties versus other options (non-Starwood options which were often cheaper).

CJKatl

Agreed!

First, each of us has seen someone lie about an injury to get on a plane early. The miracle of flight is a commonly witnesses phenomenon where a passenger needs a wheelchair to board a flight but jauntily skips down the Jetway to exit after the flight. The miracle of flight has healed many. But it is not of my business of someone wants to lie to the airline about this. Nobody is breaking the law. And at least in the plane example someone is fibbing, whereas in scheduling a meeting nobody is fibbing. In fact the T&Cs state:
Not showing up is expressly permitted whether a member who is not involved in the meeting likes it or not.

An unrelated but similar story. My mom wasn't yet sick but she was old enough to get a handicap parking placard. We went to Pulbix and a young good looking man in a slick black new Mercedes was parked in the handicap spot. We had to park inches away, and i offered to drop her at the door, but she said no. s we walked to the store mom stopped at the black Mercedes and waited for the driver to get off the phone. She told me he was going to tell him off, he deserved it. When he got off the phone, he opened his door, took the wheelchair out from behind him and moved himself over. He had no legs. Mom slithered off mumbling to herself and in an odd way I was happy he had no legs. Moral: We do not know a stranger's situation so we shouldn't make assumptions or assume others are up to no good.