I agree. I find 4Ps to be very consistent and generally a good value for what they have.

To me, the greatest disparity in starwood hotels is the Westin brand. For the life of me I cannot figure that out. The new ones in Asia are spectacular. The Westin San Diego might as well be a Sheraton or even 4P. And I do not find the service standards to be standard at all, it is like training is left entirely to the local franchisee.

As a 100 night plat I am wary of Marriott's intentions. Those of us at this level chose starwood because it suits us. Improvements are welcome, but cutting hotels or brands is not. I do not choose Courtyards in the US because they are so uniform and dull.

Yeah, this is something I just do not get. Nothing says 1980s dry skin and scalp like the bathroom amenities at Sheraton. Even Crown Plaza has updated to theirs to something more contemporary and appropriate. Having said this Sheraton seems to have multiple suppliers and the worst one is the one that supplies the US. In Asia the soap is not as bad. And sometimes they skip the Sheraton stuff altogether: the Sheraton in Taipei has very nice amenities in their suites, but then they are not Sheraton branded.

 

My experience is different for service, but Westin hotel quality is not related to geography as much as age of property IME. Most Westins in Asia are very new, and therefore seem nicer, than most Westins in N. America, which are usually much older and therefore can seem less nice if not yet refurbished/renovated. That being said, I've hadn't very good experiences with service at most Westins, even older ones.

Sheraton is unquestionably the biggest challenge for brand standards of all the SPG brands..and unquestionably the biggest challenge for Marriott to resolve. There also are far more Sheratons than Westins, so it makes sense for Marriott to tackle Sheraton issues first and foremost than any Westin issues. Sheraton also has the best branding outside of the USA, better even than Marriott, so it's in Marriott's best interests to maintain and improve that overall.

It doesn't sound like they are cutting brands for some time, if at all. It's in Marriott's interest to control distribution of more properties and rooms (in order to better compete against Expedia, Travelocity, AirBnB, etc) to actually have more brands, after all.

I agree about Courtyards being dull and uninspired. That being said, when I'm in a small town with only a CY, I'll be happy to have the option. I didn't have that option many times with 4P/Starwood.

 

Good idea! The increase of Westin's really downgraded Sheratons IMO.

 

To me, toiletry brand is the absolute least important thing at any hotel.

 

I stayed with my wife at 2 sheratons over the pat two weeks, Minneapolis and Atlanta downtown. Was like staying in two totally different chains in terms of room quality, but also simply in terms of amenities, services, etc. if they are serious about this, then GREAT... Sheraton (which is my favorite SPG brand BTW) needs this attention.

 

I don't believe that's the main problem or even a significant problem. Brand standards and image vary across extended geography. Ask yourself these questions:

If a guest just stayed at a U.S. Sheraton, is his next Sheraton stay more likely to be at a U.S. property, or at a European property?

If a guest just stayed at a European Sheraton, is his next Sheraton stay more likely to be at a European property, or at a U.S. property?

Knowledgeable guests adjust expectations to locality all the time. One may expect a 300 sq ft/30 sq meter room at a 2* Hampton Inn in Des Moines. If booking in Paris or Hong Kong and needing the same space, one had better book 4* or better.

Bed firmness, TV size, restaurant menus, bar hours... these are reasonably and properly regionalized (if not outright localized).

 

I respect what you're trying to suggest...but I am sorry to wholly disagree. Most items at Sheraton are globalized as standard between the beds, TVs, toiletries, and even interior design aesthetic. But there are some that are missing on some of those. And that shouldn't be. More of those are in N. America than abroad--period. Part of that is because most in N. America are older properties, whose owners aren't as incentivized to spend to update. Far fewer of those are abroad...which is why Sheratons abroad are more often than not perceived as in a much nicer tier of brand recognition. Service at Sheratons abroad is also at a higher level on average.

Hampton Inns have nothing to do with it. But an American Sheraton is far more likely to look like or act like one than one outside N. America.

 

As someone who has experienced the Sheraton Grand brand, I hope that is the future for all remaining Sheratons. It's a much more pleasant brand than the previous orange on brown scheme.

In re: toiletries, I wish 4PTS would go back to their previous provider. I hate the new ACTIV brand. Also, I have no problem with Sheraton brand toiletries.

 

That is the problem, there is not standard globally. I do not stay at Sheraton very often due to the brand being boring, IMO.

If the brand is saying I should experience X things and I'm entitled to X things, that what I should see, not a downward adjustment of the Brand standards.

 

Age should be irrelevant. The Moana Surfrider built in 1901 is possibly the oldest Westin (anyone know?) yet is a lovely property. Some things are difficult to change (size of rooms, size of pool) but the hotel still exudes elegance.

 

Ah the Moana Surfrider Westin was renovated most recently in 2014:

http://www.travelweekly.com/Hawaii-T...der-in-Waikiki

I agree that the Moana Surfrider Westin exudes elegance. I am not the one who complained about Westin. I merely stated that older (unrefurbished/unrenovated) properties in general are the one people tend to complain most about. Which is true.

 

The Shine products are also Bliss. Originally they were "Shine by Bliss". I think the branding changed when Starwood sold Bliss.

 

I think the real problem are the franchisees. Whenever there is a sheraton I may have issues in, it is 99% of the time one not corporate operated. I think SPG/Marriott should tighten their grip on franchisees or do more often checkups on them. These operators interpret rules their ways, they don't provide appropriate training for their staff and skimp on services, which all results in the uneven experience across the brand. When you are running a brand that is a real problem.

Think about it from fast food perspective. Yeah, there are some real dump of places, but at least the menu is always the same. The fact that some sheratons are beat up would be ok, if in the end you were receiving the same product. In hospitality that should be relatively easy to achieve, as I have stayed in some real older hotels, where the staff and the service makes up for the most modern rooms in a heartbeat.

For us interested in maintaining status with SPG or whatever that future may be, closing any of the hotels (or selling them off or forcing them to rebrand) sucks either way.

There is no doubt the slow death of SPG is on the horizon. Eventually it will be all Marriott and I doubt they paid premium to keep around dead weight.

 

Which Sheraton in Minneapolis? None of them are downtown or even close to downtown.

 

I think he meant only Atlanta Downtown...not both Minneapolis and Atlanta Downtown. (Better punctuation for clarity alert!) I assume he meant Minneapolis West or Midtown. But the distinction seems to make little difference for purposes of this discussion.